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The Republican Vice Presidential Candidate Paul Ryan is well to the right of most Americans on the issue of abortion. Ryan believes that abortion should be illegal in all cases except if it endangers the life of the mother. Ryan believes life begins at conception, and as a result a women should be forced to carry a fetus to term even if it was the result of rape or incest. The fact that rape may happen to be the “method of conception,” as Ryan phrases it, does not change Ryan’s position on whether the government should allow abortion.
This puts Ryan well outside the mainstream. According to a new CBS News poll only 21 percent think abortion should be illegal even in cases of rape and incest. By comparison an overwhelming 75 percent of voters think abortion should be allowed at least in those cases.
The poll also found that most voters are at least willing to consider voting for someone even if they don’t agree with their opinion on abortion. 57 percent said it was possible they would vote for someone who disagrees with them on abortion while 34 percent said they would not.
The fact that Ryan is extremely to the right on this issue may not automatically cause most people to vote against the Romney/Ryan ticket, but it could still seriously hurt the ticket if Democrats chose to highlight it. It feeds the Democratic narrative that the Republican party has become extreme, and it could make Ryan seem uncompassionate towards women.
The Romney ticket is already suffering from a big gender gap among women. Making it known that Ryan wants there to be a law that would make you or your daughter bear the child of a rapist can produce a very emotional and visceral reaction.
47 Comments
Only???? Seriously?? Gee, I feel so much better now. No worries then.
The Democrats also need to keep pushing the message that after abortion, the Republicans will target contraception next. Being Democrats, they won’t push that message but will instead keep trying to find “common ground” with hard-line Catholics and evangelical Christians.
Abortion is one thing but did the poll ask whether people would be willing to vote for a person with Ryan’s extreme views on abortion? Rape and incest seem like a huge thing for us to believe that 57% of Americans would be ok with in a VP.
The irony of the R position on abortion is that it’s a merely a tactic to secure votes and pass legislation which will harm real live human beings, make them poorer, make them suffer.
Rather than “highlighting” Ryan’s “stand” on abortion, why does the Democratic party not make very plain their support of the right of women to seek and obtain abortions and, as well, state that the party will fight, tooth and nail, to preserve and further that right? Why does the party not go even further (to the “left”, to the aid and comfort of humanity) and state that the health and well-being of the people, all of the people, is the essence of “national security”, not a vast arsenal, that, in fact, everyone deserves to be healthy and have a job that pays a living wage?
What in heaven’s name is stopping the Democratic party from reasserting the values of the New Deal and even extending those values?
You state here:
http://elections.firedoglake.com/2012/08/29/romneys-favorable-rating-drops-further/
that BOTH legacy parties are viewed … “negatively”.
Why then, does the Democratic party NOT take positive stands that support the middle class and the poor, the downtrodden and the oppressed?
What has the party to lose?
OR does the Kabuki not permit of rational and reasonable question, since “everybody” knows that both legacy parties are parties, private entities seeking the “consent” of the people, that “represent” the wealthy and powerful?
At some point, even if it is “THE” point of the “One Point Presidential Race”, the truth of things … actually DOES matter.
DW
Seconded but lets not forget GOPers are not much on getting Men to support the Women they get Pregnant or in Government supporting Pregnant Women.
We need to run ads in Red States with high infant mortality rates and point out that while the rest of Mostly Blue Dem America has low infant mortality rates in Red States infant mortality rates compare to third world countries.
We can use this as proof that free market solutions and private charity do a worse job of taking care of babies than the government does.
Next we close the ad with the words any Man who does not take care of his children is not a Man.
Because the Dems are just like the GOP they see helping others as a lesser good to helping themselves invest in military contracts before they are awarded.
They think they are stimulating the economy however the more we spend on war the more we want to use our army the more we go into debt to pay for wars.
Abortion means women will care more for the kids they choose to have. Spending money on kids who are wanted boosts our future economy.
We do need some pro abortion, pro children Dems and if we don’t get them we will form a third party.
Contrast with Obama who voted for Partial Birth Abortions.
Talk about being outside the mainstream. Talk about hurting real human beings.
Polls like this show a weakness but will Obama go after the weakness?
Partial Birth Abortions are almost always done to save the woman.
I think you mean ‘dilation and extraction’. Obama didn’t vote for it. Obama voted against outlawing the procedure when it is medically necessary. Dilation and extraction is performed only to save a woman’s life or prevent serious and permanent damage to her health.
If the procedure is outlawed, people will die. That is an outcome that should be unacceptable to all.
Thanks you! Talk about a commenting male inserting random data about abortion that’s out of context!
Good Woman, you.
Don’t agree with you on this, Alan. Such late terminations are done out complete necessity in terms of saving the mother’s life. It’s not something that anyone does just for the heck of it or because they waited too long.
Well said. Exactly. I don’t understand why the mother’s life and health is of abolutely no consequence to conservatives who are utterly against any kind of termination no matter what.
Someone needs to ask Petey a Kitty Dukakis question re Petey’s wife.
See what his answer is.
I just took this fun quiz at iSidewith.com and the results are pretty unsurprising. I side with Jill Stein 92 percent of the time, Obama 81 percent, (that was the only surprise, it should have been much lower given my disappointment in him), and 3 percent for Willard “Mittens” Rmoney. I side with the Greens most often and with the Republicans the least. If Texas is in play, I’m going to support Obama but if it looks like my state is out of his reach, Stein will get my vote. If you take the quiz, don’t be afraid to write in your own answers as that option is available if you click on “choose another answer”, (if none of them in the main menu suit you). Fun. Informative. And for me, persuasive.
On edit: Also a bit surprisingly, I side with Texas voters 52% of the time and American voters 57% of the time. I guess hard core liberals aren’t so far out of the mainstream after all. Somebody tell WaPo.
Good troll swatting Mary, Arcadesproject, Onitgoes :)
Please! Like the woman’s life is important to conservatives! I’m waiting for one of them to announce that “a woman dying in childbirth really isn’t dying at all, just the natural circle of life….”.
The sad thing is that a large portion of these morons think there should be NO exceptions, even if it means a woman dies in childbirth.
It’s disgusting.
The problem here is that abortion is not a critical issue for the standard voter. They really don’t care, because the maxim of ‘if you don’t like abortion, don’t have one’ is really the state of the Union. Most of us have not had an abortion, nor may we find ourselves in a position to need one (I have had one, just to be clear).
However, I liked the article I read earlier this morning about pro-life vs. pro-birth. Those who are anti-abortion are typically the same people who are anti-safety net funding too. So it’s fair to say that many pro-lifers/anti-choicers are really only pro-birth. After the baby leaves the womb, it’s on its own.
So we can go on and on about Ryan’s position and the GOP’s position, but I’ve frankly seen minimal impact on their numbers because of it. They’re still in the running. Women, apparently, are still in love with the blue eyes
Ladies, I feel the only salvation for our country lies with the women. There are just too many men who don’t have a clue (mostly democrats), have many clues but are unable to process them (mostly libertarians), are dastardly, despicable, greedy bastards out for themselves and their corporate buddies, (mostly republicans), and only a few extremely smart, extremely clued in, like myself, who are just too small in number to matter.
Provably their only problem with it is that she won’t be around to push out more soldiers ants and worker bees.
In case anyone missed this, it’s required reading:
The Importance of a Marxist Economic Analysis of the War on Women by GeminiJen
From right here at the Lake.
There are an amazingly large number of pro-life/anti-abortion women. Mostly right-wing nutjobs who claim to be Christian but, as you say, they want nothing to do with babies after they are born. I suppose I can understand them.
But, as you put it, so many anti-abortion are anti so many other things that I simply don;t and can’t understand because it is simply soooo wrong.
Regardless, see my #21. You ladies are our only salvation.
I saw this on the front page of Google and wondered who would have underwritten such a “study”.
Severe Diet Doesn’t Prolong Life, at Least in Monkeys
Could it be some “interests” whop wanted to see if they could starve the workers and still get good rates of productive lifetimes? hmmmmmmm
No, it’s “God’s will.”
When God gives someone cancer he totally is okay with them seeking medical attention to thwart “His will.” However, He is completely opposed to women terminating a pregnancy even if it costs them their lives.
A lot of intelligent men thought the women’s movement could possibly turn us around from the destructive course we’re heading in. Fritzhof Copra springs to mind in his “Turning Point”
Apparently the rich white men…and quite a few others don’t think it’s worth losing their ultimate slaves to try it.
You, however, are correct in surmising we may be humanity’s only chance at this point.
Sigh, A LOT of the women who seem to have power don’t seem much better than the men in terms of judgment. Exhibit A: Nancy Pelosi
Romney and ryan are indeed polling higher in the female demographic than I would have expected. OTOH, I know a lot of women my age, (60-ish) who are staunch republicans. That is primarioly because of the low taxes for the rich, filty rich, and filthier richer group of whom they belong. I don’t know any republican women whose household income is under $150,000.
What bothers me the most is that a large portion of the destruction of the country I enjoyed in the 60-90′s has happened on my watch so to speak. The baby-boomers, like me, we founded and deeloped rocn n roll and did so many god things for civil and social rights. We stopped a bad war. Then, everything went to hell. Of course, IMO, Cheney-Bush, the republicans and a dormant, passive democratic party with no balls, were instrumental in screwing up everything for the common man. The greed, the unbridled greed for money and power. I guess they’ll put that on our tombstone.
TCU is a dude:)
Good example. OTOH, I think she has a “Y” chromnosome hiddden somewhere. She sure acts like it sometimes.
Are you sure????? I thought you and I cleared that up long time ago?
Wow. My bad.
So it’s you, me and DW?????
Wow, we really are a small number.
Its a start :) I’m going upthread.
Some people I know think Romney is deep down a decent guy. That he is just saying what he is saying and behaving in a way he thinks is necessary to win. The Mormons I know are decent people….for religious cultists.
Now Ryan, some people say he is a despicable, greedy, lying, woman hating, racist corporatist who is owned by the 1% and for sale to the highest bidder.
Well……I can’t argue with that……
Ryan has more negatives Personally then Mitt? Please explain as far as the Bush I would rather have a beer with theory goes Mitt was already at the I don’t care if he is willing to buy the beer all night if I listen to him phase.
Some people claim that the universe is 6,016 years old next October 27. I don’t believe that bullshit either.
I admit I never bought the Bush was someone I would rather have a beer with normally lying weasels who think they are tough but hide behind their friends are the sort of people I expect to make trouble at the bar.
Who thinks Mitt is a good guy the anti abortion people can’t trust him because he has flipped flopped we can’t trust him on abortion for the same reason. Mitt has flipped on so many topics I wonder on which issue can voters left or right can trust him?
I do admit racists, anti Women, anti Latino, anti Gay etc want to believe him because Obama is black but even for the Haters Mitt is a sad hope.
IMO, Reagan was the tool, but it had started way back in college when The Young Republicans formed to counter-attack the social justice movements we had formed.
We weren’t thinking of the the next 40-50 years and they were.
But when the puppet Reagan came in, he effectively destroyed the economy and the women’s movement was the hardest hit.
We lost our printing presses and our bookstores and the hard scrabble to “make money” was predominant. When the old war horses like me got tired, the younger women didn’t feel the fire necessary to continue to work for nothing.
In a way, it’s good thing the republicans got so extreme toward us, it woke some women up that the fight will NEVER be done. I just hope it’s not too late, because if women carry this election for the democrats, there’s no guarantee Obama and the rest won’t just say “thank you, ladies” and get on with the R platform anyway. Shades of the first 4 years of throwing the base under the bus
I do know that the most important thing about electing Obama is the SC. Even if his choice ARE moderate, it’s a hell of a lot better than more Alitos, Scalias and Robertses.
At least Clinton followed the law and protected abortion clinics. O hasn’t lifted a finger.
We’ll see, I guess, HUH?
But, yeah, to watch as the right on both sides has driven us to disregarding the civil unrest that changed the face of this country…..for a little while at least is heartbreaking.
methinks newcg is still inside in Tampa due to Isaac and thus has a lot of time on his hands to sing Willard’s praises.
recommenr read Matt Taibbi’s latest piece on Willard in RS to see what a ‘decent guy’ Willard really is.
I can’t think of a “decent” person who was fortunate enough to be sent to college on his parents dime with all his expenses covered, owns millions, five houses, enjoys success and then whines because his tax rate is “too high” at an effective rate of less than 15%.
Frankly, he strikes me as a greedy and selfish jerk. I have to wonder if those that find him decent are exercising critical thinking skills.
That would almost certainly be a big “no” in most cases. Of the few who think about it and find him a “decent guy”, they are either in his socio-economic class or they need to be tested for a tumor pressing on the cognitive regions of their brains.
Margaret,
Thanks for sharing that link! My results were fairly similar. According to the quiz, I agree with Romney 4% of the time, which was disheartening. I’d love to know what that 4% is! (“I love Mom”, maybe, or “Lemons. Wet. Good.” I know it’s not tying a dog to the roof of my car.)
Come on people!
Ryan “believes” life begins at conception?
Life does begin at conception, it’s a biological fact! not a believe!
I know most people reading this blog are pro choice, but facts are facts.
Another fact is that that little life depends on its mother to stay alive, but at about 15 weeks that baby can survive outside the mother’s body. It would make a whole lot of sense if the law said that after 15 weeks the mother could decide to end her pregnancy, but the doctor would Not be able to kill the baby, the doctor would have to try to save the baby’s life. During the first 12 weeks the law would remain the same as it is today.
Extreme pro-life advocates are malicious phonies. For decades they tried to tie everyone up in ethical knots over the abortion issue. Now it has become clear that they never really cared about abortion at all, that it was just a stalking horse for their real agendas-banning birth control (thereby reasserting the sexual slavery of women), eliminating privacy (through an overturn of Griswold v. Connecticut, which as Charles Pierce points out is their real judicial goal, with an overturn of Roe v. Wade merely a way station), and ultimately establishing a anti-democratic terror state where “liberal” ideas are punishable with physical death. (Think this is an exaggeration? Maybe, but recently I’ve noticed a new, killer look in the eyes of several right-wingers I know when they discuss anything remotely political, even “liberal” Hollywood movies such as “Titanic!”)
I dare you to find me a link that supports your statement that a fetus is viable at 15 weeks. 25, which is 15 weeks EARLY is the youngest viable fetus to date. Most of these have complications, by the way so I sure hope that after forcing the women to carry them ONLY this long you intend on offering them all the medical help for their underdeveloped bodies for the duration of their lives.
Furthermore, it is awful convenient to suggest that women should not be allowed the choice to terminate a pregnancy BEFORE most fetal testing is even allowed to be conducted(Second trimester is when most fetal testing occurs). Are you even aware of when things like amnios are done? My bet is NO. Then again, most of the people weighing in on the topic(men) seem to have absolutely no idea what they are talking about so this comes as no surprise.