You mean to say that there is a”point” to this pathetic excuse for a “more of the same” election?

Forgive me, Jon, but I cannot help but ask you: What, then, IS the point?

I realize that you are talking “numbers”, but even you admit that a “point” is statistically meaningless … which does sum up this Kabuki Kampaign, after all …

Hmmm, “…regular people …” as opposed to irregular people or fictitious “people”?

Perhaps everyone who is “regular” is waiting for SCOTUS to “decide”?

It seems THAT sort of an election … by hook or by crook … and who knows how honestly the votes will be “tabulated” on account of there ain’t no paper trail …?

Ah, well … exercise yer franchise … you know, you don’t HAVE to vote for either of the legacy parties … both of which plan “more of the same”.

The only real question between “them” … is which one intends to do it “gooder” and “harder”? Or “sooner” or “later”?

Enjoy!

(“Lesser” or “Moorer” of “the same”.)

;~DW

Gallup’s reweighting model is seriously flawed, and the flaws have moved their house effect from a small R bias to a very large R bias.

The source of Gallup’s bias appears to be in the way they have used the 2010 Census results together with faulty estimates of cell-phone penetration.

It would be the ultimate irony if the Corporate descendents of the man who killed The Literary Digest( and in the process established modern political polling) were themselves done in by an epic fail in a presidential election.

We all want the one that’s gonna finish first, no DW?

Fustest wid da mostest!

Him wud toys wid da most voteses gemostest winnerest!

Und by Gott, der VIL be order .. yer fries at duh vote counter pleaze.

Ya wanta musthard oder catchup wid dat?

We aims da peas .. bud dey go where dey wants.

Ya wanna Obama fast fewd?

Or Romney fast fewd?

Poisonly, I wudn’t trust either of ‘em ta run a clean joint.

Speakin’ a which, they’s both a chicken in de pot department.

But, they’s both sellin’ sum real slick notions and hot-button tickets.

We’s just gonna hafta wait ta see wud else they’s got in store …

Gonna be swell if’n yer rich, bud utterwise, well, yu is strictly on yer own … and if ya don’t own anything, well … that’s just tough and the bankers ain’t no-how happy wid ya for closin’ ‘em out.

Well, I am gonna look at that there video, ya mentioned back yonder, when I gits a chance, Ludwig, and I thank ye kindly fer alinkin’ to it.

DW

This election is the same as the last 6: you can choose between hard-right nut case social policies and economics that favors the very rich, and soft-right social policies along with economics that favors the very rich.

The Arctic ice sheet is showing extreme behavior, the middle class in the US is in very real sustained decline, and let’s talk about abortion some more. Bankers commit vast fraud and wealth extraction with impunity and we’re talking about pistol magazines.

Gallup’s reweighting model is seriously flawed, and the flaws have moved their house effect from a small R bias to a very large R bias.

I’m sure that explains the two-point difference between Gallup and the other polls… no, wait…

Prior to the current Obama Bust-Out (we are soaking in it!), back in 2008, after 8 years of the Dubya Cheeny Bust-Out (it had hollowed out much of everything), VOTER SELF-IDENTIFICATION as Republican was as scarce as hen’s teeth. Republicanism had bottomed out – An All Time Low! A Nadir, if you will. A Ralph Nadir.

How do you fuck that up?*

Ask Obama. He knows.

Now he’s neck and neck with an asshole that even the Republicans don’t want.

So stay home and let Romney pick the next 3 Supreme Court justices.

Every time I see the Obots flinging around desperate-looking poo here at FDL I run into serious cravings for a Romney victory. When does disillusionment come?

I’m sure your Democrats will approve all of them, just as they approved Thomas, Scalia, Alito, and Roberts. They themselves want a Supreme Court Justice who will approve Obama’s Constitution-shredding moves.

Hi.
I keep pushing that as one of 3 points.
Scotus.
GLBTQ.
Immigration.
Thank you.

FWIW, Oilbomber has been horrible on immigration. Worse than Dubya.

Obama will lose, handily. Going by every major race since 2010 and every primary this year in a statistical area that reliably predicts the outcome of the general election, Republican turnout is likely to exceed Democratic turnout in numbers similar to 2010. Add to that the actually proactive steps taken by the GOP to block likely Democratic voters from the polls, the fact that Obama is being consistently outraised, and the fact that we’re entering the leg of the race where people actually pay attention and Romney finally access his general election funds and the incumbent is pretty fucked.

Oddly, I think they realize this. It’s why the O-bots in the employ of OFA have been panicking for two years and blasting out pro-Obama articles via the official email list and begging for $3 donations. Their god is about to fall and the cult is awaiting the moment of deicide.

Immigration:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2012/08/26/news/parents-deported/

Is the idea here that Romney would be soft on immigrants, and is thus unfit for the White House? The Obama administration has set records for deportation throughout his term.

Says you and whatever link you didn’t include.
Sorry. It’s just that we all have opinions and sometimes see things differently.

The polling is meaningless as the President is elected by the electoral college, based on individual states’ and in some cases, Congressional districts’, voting totals. It’s interesting to look at where people are generally but they’re about as accurate as an online poll in this context.

And as for GLBTQ, I predict that more will be accomplished against heteronormativity under Romney than under Obama, as the “liberals” will stop thinking that the President will do everything for them.

“You cut me open and I

Keep bleeding,
keep, keep bleeding love” (Leona Lewis)

plus whatever that saying is that Yogi Berra said…

(Hands up, palms facing out.)
I give.
For now.
Ta! :)

Crappy and Crappier are neck and neck. I’m almost getting goosebumps wondering which “leader” will get to destroy the social safety net./s

Republican turnout is likely to exceed Democratic turnout in numbers similar to 2010.

Interesting theory. Let’s see how the aftermath of the big floor fight today shakes out. I can’t see the Libertarian wing of the Republican party turning out for Rmoney, after what the RNC did to their delegates, do you? The racists will certainly be there, no matter the other candidate, as long as it’s a “he” and he’s white. The interesting thing is, I know a whole lot of Libertarians, including my brother and they don’t tend to be racist, at least not in my experience.

Actually, Demi, he is right. Obama has deported far more people than Bush did.

Deportations have reached record levels under President Obama, rising to an annual average of nearly 400,0001 since 2009, about 30% higher than the annual average during the second term of the Bush administration and about double the annual average during George W. Bush’s first term.

You all might as well let Romney win. He’s certain to be as honest, if not more honest, than Obama has been anyway. Here is an interesting quote from Matt Stoller, in his review of Neil Barofky’s book “Bailout”:

“Think about this for a second. Congress’s approval rating is in the toilet, and the legislature is used as a scapegoat for any number of problems. The public likes the President, broadly speaking, but thinks of Congress as immensely corrupt and inept. Barofsky’s book essentially says that the public has this story backwards – it was Treasury, he argues, who was uninterested in preserving taxpayer dollars from fraud. And it was Congress, figures like Barney Frank, Darryl Issa, Richard Shelby, and others, who were the major forces behind what little accountability there was towards the banks. Even more shockingly, Barofsky notes that actors in the Bush administration, from Hank Paulson to Neel Kashkari, were more honest and reliable than those in the Obama administration. Barofsky, a self-described Democrat, found this surprising.”

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2012/08/in-bailout-neil-barofsky-reveals-the-key-lie-of-the-obama-administration.html

There you go: the Bush administration was much more honest than the Obama administration.

Fair enough. I wonder how much policies under Bush where finally pushed into action under Obama’s admin?
Thanks for the #’s and the info.
I may have to scratch that off my list.
(And, hugs.)

Yep. Trying to take ammunition away from the Republicans when they have demonstrated over and over that reality has absolutely no bearing on their rhetoric. Obama’s still continually seeking bipartisan ponies. Dumbass. [Not you of course Mary but Obama. :)]

It is like choosing between having to step in a dog turd or a cat turd. But, on a personal note, Mittens creeps me out more. Obama creeps me out less.

What an election.

It’s important to remember that the Bush administration wasn’t trying to compare itself to Gandhi and Nelson Mandela while it pursued right-wing policies:

http://youtu.be/sV3w7OD2pDs

Sometimes dishonesty is less shocking than the shocking truth.

Cat turd.
That’s Obama.
You’ve done it again, Missy!
Ever the artist, You.

Heh, he’s conducted himself so “honestly” thus far. I mean look at how he treats his taxes.

Romney and Obama could be twins particularly when it comes to truth.

Women’s health care is what has swayed me. Democrats and Obama are inarguably, empirically much closer to my position on reproductive choice and women’s health care access in general. And for the people who are going to inevitably bring up Bart Stupak:
1. He’s not in Congress anymore. A lot of his blue dog caucus is gone too.
2. I don’t live in Michigan so I won’t have to hold my nose for that particular vote
3. I never heard Stupak or any Democrat, claim that victims of rape couldn’t get pregnant.
To me this is about women not losing all of the progress that’s been made. But to be honest, I will have never had to hold my nose so tightly!

Yes. I agree. I feel the capital F stirring in me lately. We need to show up in massive numbers again. Feminists.

Sorry I didn’t see your comments this morning demi. I was long at gone by the time you came along though. I’m up and out of here early!

And, the SCOTUS part could/will make a difference in that respect. Maybe.
It could happen.

I feel the capital F stirring in me lately. We need to show up in massive numbers again. Feminists.

Spot on! And we can take a page from the LGBT book and make the Democrats pay attention by lobbying and closing our purses until they do.

Of course, and totally understood.
Even then. :)

DEFINITELY going to be relevant.

Yikes…I Haven’t been here in awhile and I know we’re all disappointed in Obama but I will drag myself and anyone else I can to the polls to vote dem all the way.
Have you forgotten the hell of the GWB years?

They treated the Paulites worse in 2008 and McCain barely lost the election in terms of the popular vote, despite Palin imploding almost immediately after the convention and having no money. Romney is going to have an insane amount of money and most MSM pundits are either stupid enough to think Ryan is as smart as he thinks he is or are paid enough to pretend to think that. I think it won’t have an effect.

However, on a side note, my personal experience is that most “libertarians” (I prefer to call them what they are, fantastically delusional market anarchists) are both gun nuts and racists. (This seems to be Paul’s experience as well, given the content of the newsletters he used to recruit followers.) You generally have to go to a major city to find people who self-describe that way out of actual thought–or as close to it as these people come–the rest are generally the lunatic fringe of the Republican Party.

We ain’t saying we won’t vote for O. We are saying it is a failed system and a bad choice.

Every fucking election we hear the same thing, oh my god the Supreme Court judges will be bad.

Okay, first of all, your experiences won’t necessarily jibe with mine. Also, I used to LIVE in Paul’s district and was, in fact, born there, (though long before he represented it), and I have read those mailers so I’m not deluded about what kind of a racist asshole Ron Paul is. And I’m dead serious: Almost all of the Libertarians I know are delusional market anarchists and almost all of them are really upset about the formal embrace of the racists by the GOP. On the other hand, my sample is biased as I don’t hang out with racists nor does my Libertarian brother. This country is enormous and complex and not even conservatives fit into a neat box.

I’m going to take off, and I hope I won’t offend Mary Mc if I say I might think of you when I have the dog/cat turd choice to make. It could happen tonight, or tomorrow.
Night, Pegster too, of course.

Bitter much? Who knows? Maybe Ralph Nader will re-animate himself and run in 2016, and look good losing, and make you firebaggers feel better about yourselves…

No offence taken, my dear.

Condescend to people who have actual values much? People like you are the standardbearers for the current Democratic Party. “We don’t actually care what he the candidate does, or if it resembles–in any way–something that is legal or a recognizably Democratic policy, we just want to win. (Bankers; smug, entitled white children of privilege; and Yellow Dogs, queue here.)”

If Obama loses it will be his own fault. Instead of seeking to please the Republicans that were never going to vote for him to begin with he should have looked at pleasing his base. Instead he got his surrogates to call them “f*cking retards” and shut them out of health care discussions. So as far as I’m concerned if he goes down in flames he has no one to blame but himself. Perhaps he should head over to the Heritage foundation to seek out votes, after all he chose their health care plan.

Yeah but that’s only cuz Dubya worked half as much as PBO …

*Ducks and runs*

Many people here are still feeling very hurt because they bought into the whole myth that the Democrats and their supporters created around Barack Obama. I’m not as disappointed because I never supported the DNC approved partisan flack until after the primaries in 2008 and then only lukewarmly. I’m not saying Cephalus is one of those people but disagreeing is no reason to start throwing names like “firebagger” around.
I’ve already said that I’m voting for the bastard but I’m NOT happy about it.

He sure took a lot of days off, visiting that “ranch” that he sold immediately after leaving office.

Peg !

More than Obama, what’s really going to decide the future is how many BlueDogs get turfed and how many Progressives get elected …

Marshall Petain? Is that you?

Solai !

Yep, it’s bizarre how much like the Bush/Gore fight, this year’s election really is…

Considering the party goes out of it’s way to get blue dogs I wouldn’t hold my breath.

Ever the pragmatics, the DNC will make sure to marginalize anything remotely progressive. Ceding the debate is what they do. (see: choice, unions, gun control laws)

That is likely true.

Cowboy Bush couldn’t even ride a Clothes Horse …

I am one of those people. I was an Edwards supporter, but I genuinely believed in the Obama 2008 campaign. It seemed like every educated kid in the country with his or her heart in the right place was on the campaign and health care was my main issue. (The Party ran on single-payer for two cycles straight and Obama openly mocked the Heritage Foundation’s policy template on the campaign trail.)

However, the minute Obama got into office it was: “Hey, you know what would be FUCKING AWESOME? Cutting Social Security, raising the eligibility of Medicare so that most working people will be in the ground or on their deathbeds before they qualify, and spending two years pretending to fight over a backdoor bailout of the health insurance industry that their own lobbyists wrote! Also, lets do everything in our power to alienate the base by governing exactly like Republicans and openly insulting them in public at EVERY opportunity.”

I don’t think it’s votes he wants from the Republicans. Country club memberships perhaps.

You are sooooooo bad.

Ann Romney is going say that Mitt will lift up America … obviously, he’s looking for loose change !

LOL … Senator !

How’re the Grandkids ?

It’s easy for me to imagine the Republicans trying to enforce some sort of sexist initiative upon America and Obama “compromising.” It’s also easy for me to imagine the resistance to the same initiative under Romney being rather overwhelming.

But maybe I just have an overactive imagination.

Mary Mc, have you talked with your relatives and friends in La? Was just wondering how they are and if they are prepared for Isaac?

If you’ve been supporting progressive values, take Heart … the tide has turned. It has always been a constant battle, but it has shifted in our favor and we need all Hands on Deck !

{{{ Twain }}}

If the race is this close, the Republicans will win. They fight dirtier than the Democrats. If Obama hopes to win, he must pull away by more than one percentage point.

PETRO! How are you? Is it still summer there?

I’m sure he’ll land into a nice cushy job after he leaves the WH, unlike a lot of the population that got screwed as a result of the banking industry.

Yep. They took a bath two years ago. We’ll see….

Yes’m !

We’ve had two cool nights, enough to enjoy Coffee but no Sweater needed. From tomorrow, we’re in for a solid week of heavenly BBQ hot, sunny weather ! *g*

Heh, yeah just look at that progressive Angus King in Maine- oh wait he ISN’T the actual progressive choice there-just the one most likely to win.

Or look at the progressive winner the Democratic Party chose for Pennsylvania, it’s the guy who was the only Democrat to vote for 4 anti choice amendments.

Then there’s the progressive choice in Virginia- another anti choice Democrat-this time one who ran the DNC.

Let’s hear it for progressive choice and the Democratic Party.

(rolls eyes)

It ticked me off that Russ lost, but I think he’ll do more good leading the fight from where he is now.

The Dems in Congress need to be chased around for the next 2 months, and made to pledge support for expanding the ACA, spending more $$$ on Jobs, etc.

And the difference is? The Supremes choice doesn’t matter anymore, because the Republicans hold an effective veto on any choice a Democratic president might make. The current Court has stripped us of our civil rights. As to abortion, it is important, but being jailed forever without charges trumps it.

We had a couple of days that felt “fallish” and now it’s hot again. I’m ready for rain and cool weather. Although BBQ sounds good.

You should have been paying closer attention is all I can say. Obama has always been about as “Progressive” as Joe Lieberman and Rahm Emanuel. In fact, I was calling him “Orahma” in 2006 and getting called “racist” in return by Obama supporters. Don’t let your hurt betray your own values though. We don’t have to burn Rome. Yet.

Well, aren’t you just full of sunshine …

There have been some positive signs these past few years, enough for us to be motivated and work for the greater good; it’s a helluva lot better than sitting on a perch and pissing on everyone.

That’s by design by the way. If they didn’t give the GOP veto power then the Democrats would have a sad because the GOP might call them names and make them cry.

The GOP is full of authoritarian bullies and the Democratic party is full of cowardly wimps. Quite the winning combination.

We’re forecast to have the warmest September ever, and I’m thrilled to bits … there’s no such thing as too much BBQ !

I’m full of reality. Every year I watch progressives say “this year is going to be better” and every year I’ve watched the Democrats laugh at you.

Don’t expect me to work for “more, better Democrats.” The Democratic Party has made it more than abundantly clear that “winning” trumps principle and I won’t get behind a principleless party. I’m third party all the way.

I’m not betraying my values, I’m voting for Jill Stein. I believe that a vote has to be earned and “I’m not as shitty as the other guy on the social issues that do not matter to our mutual funders” isn’t a winning argument to me. Neither is the Supreme Court argument. Obama replaced two liberal GOP appointees with DLCers/Right-wing Democrats. The choice on that score isn’t if the Court will lurch further to the right, it’s a choice of what flavor of right-wing we get.

SCHIP, DOMA repeal, DADT repeal, bailing out American manufacturers … those are all hard won victories, how dare you piss all over us !

You can have your illusory third party … just don’t denigrate what many people here have fought for, and continue to fight for.

Maybe the people who support OBAMA know something you don’t? because the same people supported John McCain?

Please view list below

Matt Taibbi put the list below together

Obama’s top 20 list included:

Goldman Sachs ($1,013,091)
JPMorgan Chase & Co ($808,799)
Citigroup Inc ($736,771)
WilmerHale LLP ($550,668)
Skadden, Arps et al ($543,539)
UBS AG ($532,674), and…
Morgan Stanley ($512,232).

McCain’s list, meanwhile, included (drum roll please):

JPMorgan Chase & Co ($343,505)
Citigroup Inc ($338,202)
Morgan Stanley ($271,902)
Goldman Sachs ($240,295)
UBS AG ($187,493)
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher ($160,346)
Greenberg Traurig LLP ($147,437), and…
Lehman Brothers ($126,557).

Obama’s list included all the major banks and bailout recipients, plus a smattering of high-dollar defense lawyers from firms like WilmerHale and Skadden Arps who make their money representing those same banks. McCain’s list included exactly the same banks and a similar list of law firms, the minor difference being that it was Gibson Dunn instead of WilmerHale, etc.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/iowa-the-meaningless-sideshow-begins-20120103#ixzz1icl0E0pm

Do you still think OBAMA is the QB for Dems?

You mean THIS SCHIP?

http://homecaremag.com/news/medicaid-schip-25-states-cut-20090202/

Grow up, you didn’t win. They moved the goal line Charlie Brown.

As for even better “progressive” victories there is the conscience clause and Hyde amendment, the banking bailout that never ends, the wars that never end, etc, etc.

But hey you go ahead and vote for President Progressive and his merry men.

must read!!!

“And sure enough, as Dean Baker points out, a gang of incredibly wealthy CEOs are planning to gut entitlements regardless of which candidate wins in 2012. It’s not just CEOs, of course, it’s also the usual gang of corrupt Democratic establishment folk”

http://truth-out.org/news/item/10692-obamas-second-term-agenda-cutting-social-security-medicare-and-or-medicaid

what kind of man is Obama? read and find out
great article
Perris gave it to us
need to share this with everyone!

Dean Baker and a lot of others agree with you Cephalus

The Democrats and the GOP are the same freaking animal. Oh sure they play dress up and play act but anyone who thinks that either of these parties care for Joe Average is just fooling themselves.

Another honestly stated and spot on comment…thank you for taking the time to put it up DWB … lotta good it will do at this point but at least the farce once again is exposed for the record…these comments may one day be read by others who may then be able to know by our words not all of us just fell in line like Good and Dumb Americans for the likes of the pitched manure the Ds and Rs are throwing around and at us…

Note the Dbot/Obot comments showing up in this comments thread…not going to change it…it is not a matter of fact,truth or basic observation for the Obots/Dbots or the R Mockery Sellers But IOKIYAAD types.

Has now passed over to the fervor of blind faith or stupidity ( pick one or both ) with the Dbots/Obots at this point here in late August 2012.

Barack Obama’s thinking and objectives just the other day were well documented here at FDL. Obama wants to talk Fiscal Cliffs and Take Less And STFU. Cutting/gutting SS is in Obama’s crosshairs now and surely is if re-elected as POTUS in 11/12.

Naturally the Rs want what Obama wants but lets jeer,mock and berate Mitt and the R orcs being that is most excellent misdirection away from Obamas abysmal willingness to compromise and record as a D POTUS since 2009.

I grew up in a household where being a Packer Backer or being a Cowboys backer or being a Vikings,Steelers or Bears fan was Serious Stuff and the quality of the attacks and counterattacks largely was/is like this R vs. D junk. Of course the travails of a thrown or run pigskin for some Americans tops the Priority List followed by which brand of pickup one owns,which brand of beer one drinks and then who is better to run WashingtonDC — the Rs or the Ds? Get my drift…

Polls are now being seen all over to do with R vs. D junk. One is wise to understand polls here in these United States post WW2 are opinion rudders as well as opinion charters. Which is why we see so damn many polls.

Now imagine if Jill Stein or Rocky Anderson or candidates #4 and #5 for POTUS in 2012 were to get half as much exposure,coverage and political space as the R Hating and O Abetting does here at FDL? At Dkos? At Salon? At ThinkProgress? At take your next five politics sites picks. How would that look?

You are spot on DW with your comment…and I have just spent ten minutes coloring in around it.

We have a known warcriminal now in the WH who plainly is being given large amounts of 3 Monkey treatment by Good Americans. Who then turn around and want to fearmonger over SCOTUS picks,GLBTQ topics and immigration politics.

The logic of this being so? Lets support and vote for a warcriminal who kills innocents while being a warmonger because that does not matter as much as SCOTUS,GLBTQ and immigration. Of course this circles back to the practice of IOKIYAAD. If Mitt Romney were now POTUS doing what Obama has done/is doing it definitely would not be getting the turd polishing Obama doing it is given by the Obots/Dbots. There would be Intense Derision.

Too bad about how the R vs. D junk runs the table as there are other political povs and candidates who do offer some real alternatives. Are they going to win the WH? Hell no — the Rs and Ds will ensure they do not being they run the political roulette spins here in USA.

We are going to either get Obama or Romney. Some choice. Some non choice.

There will be more war. More wanton militarism.More death dealing.

Obama has been a very good One Percent POTUS. Which is why Romney is being pushed way into stage right antics trying to out GOP Obama’s DINOism.

SS will get knives and axes. Either by R or by D.

Pretending there is some kind of difference? Its called self delusion.

I totally agree

It is all a con game

Heads we win, tails you lose regular Americans. This is all a big game to corporate America. They own the casino and the House never loses.

But hey SCHIP……

No matter how much one dislikes Obama, it’s simply not easy to make a choice between voting Obama and voting third party. Yes, Obama has been a miserably disappointing, corporatist president. But a victory for the Republicans would be a huge triumph for racism, given Obama’s status as the first African-American president (his only really major achievement) and the viciously racist campaign the Republicans have run against him from day one of his presidency. Also, as corporatist as the Democrats are, they have not yet become an unofficial arm of Opus Dei, as the Republicans apparently have.

I live in a solidly blue state, and I’m voting for Jill Stein. If I lived in a swing state, I’d vote for Obama. Others will make different decisions which I respect. As I said, this is not a simple choice.

Indeed. And here a post about the horse race between two corporate-bankrolled political twins, the outcome of which will most likely have zero impact on the quality of anyone’s life, gets near on 100 comments while two other recent posts on fracking and the pathetic increase in efficiency of private transportation both get comments in the single digits.

No, no, no you totally misunderstand

Senator Warner(one of those more better “progressive” victory candidates we got in 2006) and President Obama (our wonderous 2008 “progressive” victory)want to “save” Social Security from the EVIL, EVIL GOP.

It’s going to be a real progressive victory when we raise the age, change how COLA is calculated and consider means testing. (tongue firmly in cheek)

I believe that a vote has to be earned and “I’m not as shitty as the other guy on the social issues that do not matter to our mutual funders” isn’t a winning argument to me.

I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. For me women’s issues hafta govern my vote. I think Stein is a great vote to cast, though ultimately just a protest vote unfortunately.

I could and have respected the choice of people who chose to vote for Obama. However, I am sick and tired of hearing people tell others that are choosing a third choice that they need to be realistic and pick between team A and B. Or that somehow THEY will be responsible for an Obama loss(Hello? When do we start holding pols responsible for their actions?)

The reality is BOTH major party candidates suck and it is completely reasonable to expend energy to get more choices than bad and worse on the ballot.

Completely agree.

x2

I can only imagine that people who think that Obama is progressive on immigration haven’t been to the US-Mexico border in the last four years. What other explanation could there be for this delusion?

I don’t see how one can vote for the Republican ticket. Bill Black has a rather long post up now that is about the Irish famine and mass immigration in 1846-1850. He relates it to Paul Ryan and the Tea Party rather nicely. Seems things never really change.

Artur Davis, (the same guy who just put Rmoney’s name into nomination at the RNC), is the guy who put Obama’s name into nomination at the DNC four years ago. I just don’t understand how anybody could miss that! I mean, Artur Davis? Harold Ford? Rahm Emanuel? Not to mention Axlerod and Lanny Davis! How could anybody have reasonably thought Obama was any kind of Progressive?

In the past I’ve had various reactions to elections, but this is the only one that has ever made me sad. The entire thing is a farce.

Yeah, I started dreading it two years ago November.

Obama is definitely not progressive. But here is what Ryan said in March:

In pushing for draconian cuts in Medicaid, food stamps and other programs that aid the needy, Mr. Ryan isn’t just looking for ways to save money. He’s also, quite explicitly, trying to make life harder for the poor — for their own good. In March, explaining his cuts in aid for the unfortunate, he declared, “‘We don’t want to turn the safety net into a hammock that lulls able-bodied people into lives of dependency and complacency, that drains them of their will and their incentive to make the most of their lives.’”

this is not good vs evil?

this is evil vs evil.

“There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans.”
—Paul Wellstone

Obama is an insult to great democrats likd FDR, JFK, Paul Wellstone

Obama will soon realize that Dems are Intelligent.

Obama has a base problem, and he knows it!

Obama lied to the wrong political party.

Romney can lie, and lie, to GOPers because they are morons.

If Obama wanted to be Clarence Thomas, he should have join the GOP.

the bottom line is this, there are a lot of Blacks, Whites, and Hispanics that will not vote for OBAMA, but they are going to vote Democratic.

Obama better hope and pray, he gets a lot of very, very, low inform voters to vote for him.

I don’t see it that way. The republicans are totally evil. But I agree Obama is no prize. It is just that the alternative could be hell.

You must take my comment @ 97 in context with the rest of my comments in this post. You’re preaching to the choir. I was pointing out that many people who viscerally hate Obama hate him because they bought into the “Progressive” hype four to six years ago. I’m less disappointed because I never believed he was any kind of Progressive. Still I’m holding my nose and voting for him most likely.

I understand and feel about the same. The article by Bill Black swung me around. The quote above is from his post,via Krugmann. If I could get the link to work I would do it but alas no go.

Obama made a huge mistake, a long, long, time ago.

the USA needed an FDR, not a Reagan, “FDR probably did not want to do all the liberal stuff he done, but he done it to save the USA”

Obama thought he could be another Clinton. Wrong!

this is not 1992

we must thank people like Jane Hamsher who has help educate thousands of Union Members, Progressives, Liberals and others about the con game that is our Govt.

Obama finds himself in a very bad position, governing the un-educated and the dumb is easy.

However, governing the Intelligent is not so easy!

A lot of people know Obama is an empty suit and a Wall Street Puppet, and not a good one at that.

Obama must recruit and pray that very low inform voters vote for him. I doubt if many who call themselves the Intelligent Left will vote for him.

But the alternative is the Tea Party. You should read Bill Black’s post and then come back here and tell me that both parties are the same. They are not. That comment does not make me think Obama is a swell quy, just far better than the other guy.

what does Bill Black say?
hit us with some quick facts that make Obama less evil

A lot of liberals pissed off at the Democratic party voted for Nader in 2000, which made the race close enough for the Republicans to steal. Now, my position isn’t that we shouldn’t hold candidates and office holders accountable, that’s just a statement of historical fact. It’s not disputable. As a matter of political bent, I don’t disagree with almost any single thing the anti Obama/DNC liberals are saying now. Simultaneously, I have no reason to expect things would turn out differently this time if a whole bunch of third party protest votes are cast. For me, it’s about practicality. Because I sure as hell don’t have anything to be enthusiastic about.

That’s a reasonable issue on which to base a voting decision, but I can’t see how a vote for Obama in red state furthers the cause any more than a vote for Stein, pro-choice, a woman, and a doctor. (Not trying to change your mind, I respect that this is a difficult election, but it does seem that as far as electoral college votes, both are in a sense protest votes.)

Thanks for the great discussion. Better than having to pay attention to you know The Walrus and the Wife.

Again, I don’t disagree with any single thing that you said. *sigh* I don’t know what the answer is. All I can do is what I can personally live with.

I should at this time point out that while Texas probably won’t be in play, the black and Hispanic vote will be overwhelmingly Democratic and the state has been trending bluer. Heck, it’s not even in the top ten most conservative states. I could still flip and vote Stein If Texas looks like a Rmoney lock.

Here is the title to his post (I can’t make the link work):

Why is Paul Ryan, an Irish Catholic, praising the dogmas that drove the Great Hunger?

The post is about the Irish famine and mass migration in 1846 -1850. He relates the deeds and words then to what is going on today. The guote I posted above is from the post. It is a rather long article but worth the read.

Obama has a base problem, and he knows it!

I don’t feel as secure as you do in this matter. It seems likely to me that Obama feels he can rope in all of the “base” while catering to the Republicans. I can’t think of any political experience that would say anything to the contrary. In 2000 it took a rather heroic Ralph Nader effort to squeeze out a rather tiny progressive vote, and Nader had all sorts of advantages that Jill Stein just cannot duplicate.

Now, if America crumbled into dust sometime in 2015, perhaps then Obama would have a base problem…

Obama must recruit and pray that very low inform voters vote for him.

AKA the poor, the unemployed, the disenfranchised, the millions living in poverty with no voice and no health care and little chance for a good education. You can add all the minorities here as well. Yes, that is a tough hill to climb, I agree, especially for a guy who is definitely not FDR. But he also is not Romney/Ryan.

Jill Stein is someone I could support if she had any chance at all to affect the election. But she does not. If only she were in the debates, she could speak truth to power.

Ditto on the *sigh* – this is a truly dismal election. I can’t know for sure whether it would change my vote, but if I thought my vote mattered in turning a red state blue, I would have to consider that as a factor.

It’s easy to sympathize with Stein — she appears to be the only person with any chance of doing anything about the current fiasco.

But Gore was much better than Obama (remember he wrote Earth in the Balance), and the Democrats in 2000 had not yet shown their full new colors, or at least not as many people had yet recognized them.

The RICH deserve MORE money,
and The Working class & The Poor should pay for it!
—-co-signed by President Obama & the “Centrist” Dem Leadership

“Now, there’s one thing you might have noticed I don’t complain about: politicians. Everybody complains about politicians. Everybody says they suck. Well, where do people think these politicians come from? They don’t fall out of the sky. They don’t pass through a membrane from another reality. They come from American parents and American families, American homes, American schools, American churches, American businesses and American universities, and they are elected by American citizens. This is the best we can do folks. This is what we have to offer. It’s what our system produces: Garbage in, garbage out. If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you’re going to get selfish, ignorant leaders. Term limits ain’t going to do any good; you’re just going to end up with a brand new bunch of selfish, ignorant Americans. So, maybe, maybe, maybe, it’s not the politicians who suck. Maybe something else sucks around here… like, the public. Yeah, the public sucks. There’s a nice campaign slogan for somebody: ‘The Public Sucks. F*ck Hope.’” -George Carlin

Nice work here, Jedi! These are the “citizens” who decide who the President is. And these are the “citizens” for whom the President works.

Joe Average is stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can either admit that they are politically powerless as far as voting for democratic representatives is concerned, or they can continue to believe the myths they learned in their junior high civics textbooks. Continuing to believe the bullshit seems more appealing than facing one’s political insignificance, at least as the latter is defined institutionally. US politics functions a lot like religion in that sense.

I get the feeling that the religion of Joe Repugnant, who is fundamentally an authoritarian, actually has less difficulty reconciling his faith to political reality, comrade.

Yes, that is an important caveat. Authoritarians, who more frequently tend to be Reps than Dems, do have less difficulty. However, they suffer from the same level of disenfranchisement, the same political powerlessness in a system where politicians work for the businesses that bankroll them and not for the citizenry. The evidence for this is the recent trend in putting one’s political ideas on T-shirts and bumper stickers, which so far as I see almost entirely represent right wing/Republican ideologies. Citizens who feel they are heard and matter politically don’t need to do this because they are confident that they are adequately represented in government. It gives lie to the underlying insecurities of a political system that takes care of neither Joe Average nor Joe Rupugnant, however much authoritarianism further clouds the delusion of the latter.

I also live in Texas. Vote for Stein. The Texas Democratic Party is fucking retarded, and I’d argue deliberately so at this point. Their big plan to mobilize Latinos is the “Promesa Project,” which is basically the National Party’s GOTV program from 2010 with Spanish subtitles. It’s not going to be competitive. At all. (Also despite both Texas-based national co-chairs being from San Antonio and one of them being the keynote speaker at the DNCC, they’re going to lose Bexar County in the general. Democratic primary turnout was literally half that of the Republican turnout.)

I’m less afraid of Romney/Ryan then I am of continuing to propagate the myth that the Democratic Party actually represents a different constituency than the GOP or that they represent “liberals.” They don’t. They represent the same monied interests as the GOP.

Feel free to go to Gallups facebook page and suggest that they at least poll her so that she might have a shot at being in the debates(not that I wouldn’t expect the goal posts to be moved if she did meet the qualifications.)

This is my first time posting a link, so I hope it works.

Benzinga: Why is Paul Ryan, an Irish Catholic, praising the dogmas that drove the Great Hunger?

There is not much passion for Obama, is there?
Maybe what is needed is for Democratic Party to take a major beating, so there may finally be some self examination. I think even though the leadership of the party works for the wants to rake in as much money as possible, yet these same people cannot stay in business without voter support. If they can’t get voter support, there is no need for them to exist. Who wants to give money to a party that can’t deliver votes? Dems have to decide who they are. But we already have a Rep. party and there is no need for Rep 2. After all, Reps can create a a token political party themselves and have it run against them.

An excellent link, norecovery, thank you.

I hope that others might take the opportunity of reading it.

DW

Prior to the current Obama Bust-Out (we are soaking in it!), back in 2008, after 8 years of the Dubya Cheeny Bust-Out (it had hollowed out much of everything), VOTER SELF-IDENTIFICATION as Republican was as scarce as hen’s teeth. Republicanism had bottomed out – An All Time Low! A Nadir, if you will. A Ralph Nadir.

How do you fuck that up?*

Ask Obama. He knows.

You hit the nail right on the head: just when you start to believe the GOP has scraped the bottom of the barrel, couldn’t possibly get any worse, leave it the DNC’s retarded shower of voter-drones to force to me watch “The Other Conservative Party” demonstrate all over again its capacity to fuck up a junkyard with a foam rubber hammer …

And the best excuse they got is either playing the “Always Remember – Never Forget” card (just replace “9/11″ with “George W. Bush” and parakeet ad nauseam) or the “Bad Ol’ Republicans Gonna Regulate Women’s Crotches (For Really Really Realz This Time!)” card.