Now that Mitt Romney is claiming he paid at least 13 percent in taxes ever year but still refusing to release more returns, it has given the Obama campaign an opening to keep up pressure on the issue. The latest move by the Obama team to keep the issue in the news is to offer the Romney campaign a deal. In a public letter Jim Messina, Obama campaign manager, offered to basically drop the issue if Romney would simply release five years of returns. From the letter:
This request for the release of five years, covering the complete returns for 2007-2012, is surely not unreasonable. Other Presidential candidates have released more, including the Governor’s father who provided 12 years of returns. In the Governor’s case, a five year release would appropriately span all the years that he has been a candidate for President. It would also help answer outstanding questions raised by the one return he has released to date, such as the range in the effective rates paid, the foreign accounts maintained, the foreign investments made, and the types of tax shelters used.
To provide these five years, the Governor would have to release only three more sets of returns in addition to the 2010 return he has released and the 2011 return he has pledged to provide. And, I repeat, the Governor and his campaign can expect in return that we will refrain from questioning whether he has released enough or pressing for more.
Not surprisingly the deal was quickly rejected by the Romney team but success was never really the point. Merely offering the deal has already succeeded in its goal.
While Romney refusal to release more returns is not a political death blow, it does make him look bad. A majority think Romney should release more and his refusal does make it look as if he is hiding something.
With only 81 days until the election, every day spent talking about something that makes Romney look bad instead of talking about something that make Obama look bad is a real victory for the Obama team. The fact that with what is basically nothing more than a quickly written blog post the Obama campaign can breathe new life into Romney’s tax return story shows how poorly the Romney team has handled the PR on this issue. By stubbornly refusing to put an end to this by simply releasing more returns, Romney is going to let the Obama team keep riding this thing all the way to November. I can think of probably a half dozen openings that will likely emerge in the coming weeks that will give Democrats more chances to revive the topic.
It is rather amazing the number of new cycles Romney has allowed the issue to eat up in a election Romney was supposed to make all about Obama’s handling of the economy.




85 Comments
With only 81 days until the election, every day spent talking about something that makes Romney look bad instead of talking about Obamas record is a real victory for the Obama team.
peterr came up with the best line, should be a campaign poster;
“how can we trust him with our tax dollars if he won’t trust us to look at his tax return”
He actually does, you know, have something to hide. For Democrats, this is pay-back for Whitewater.
I had mentioned before, one of the biggest victories obama had was the ryan pick, it had to scare a bunch of us nobama dems into voting for him
If 0 wins the election, how long do you think it will be before 0 leads the legislative charge to do exactly what ryan has proposed? Do you really think that 0 can be trusted to live up to any kind of promise that is not in line with 1% objectives?
he will begin immediately
actually he said so even before he took office so there is no real surprise
we elected a trojan horse and the tbamers are gonna do it again
“tbamer”
I think I like that…just invented it
The GOP doesn’t care that much about Romney losing. They’ll just get Obama to do their dirty work and take the blame. Why change a winning formula?
Sort of a “cheat sheet” for Willard’s returns here.
I am in no way convinced that a “victory” for Obama translates into a victory for the people, or for reason, or for tolerance, or for understanding.
If those four things do not matter, then Obama must be a “winner”… at least by the feeble “logic” of unreasoning and limitless FEAR.
DW
the real puppeteers are thrilled with obama, he has written and passed more corporate swill then any republican could
I think that’s one of the reasons he was forced into taking ryan, to make him even more un electable and move the curve further to the right in the same breath
I don’t see how it’s Obama’s call on how much transparency Romney honors. That obligation to be open about your finances is to the American people, and it’s not something to be bargained away by the Obama campaign. Who are they to tell us that 5 years is fine while rhetorically giving up on demands to see more?
I’m still not voting for O. He’s a fraud. The choice for most Americans is tweedle dee or tweedle dummer.
now that is a great post scarecrow
O’s always looking for the “bipartisan” way.
Ryan just makes it so much easier for Obama to swing further right. I have n choice but to vote third party Dr Jill Stein. Also it is game over for the planet in 2020. So time has run out for all species.
Excellent point, Scarecrow.
DW
I hope your vision is not “perfect” regarding 2020, wagtehdog.
Otherwise, yes … and I agree …
DW
If Mitt wants us to believe he paid lots of taxes, but can’t share his returns, how about showing us cancelled checks written to the IRS? He can’t even do that
I always assumed that it was a technicality. Obama’s official campaign might not call for additional disclosure but that wouldn’t stop all the PACs and other orgs working toward his re-election from doing so. I would be stunned if they didn’t. So I don’t see Obama giving up a lot by that offer.
I do not understand Scarecrow’s point.
The Obama campaign is saying that the campaign will drop the issue of Romney failing to make adequate disclosure of his tax returns, if Romney releases 5 years of returns. Clearly, the Obama campaign has the right to determine what campaign issues it wishes to pursue.
This proposal, if Romney were to accept it, would not preclude the public, news organizations or any other entity from continuing to request additional returns from Romney.
I think it’s funny/sad that Romney’s campaign is trying to make like this is an attempt at distracting from the poor economy, as if the bullshit financial games that so many rich people play aren’t *why* the economy is in a hole. The Obama campaign could nail him to the wall on that connection … except they’re accomplices.
Willard can’t show ’09…
Clearly, oldgold, you do understand … you simply do not agree.
You imply, by claiming that you do not understand, that Scarecrow’s point is obscure, is somehow unfair (apparently to Obama?), or disingenuous … yet others have been able to grasp the essence and fundamental meaning of what Scarecrow shared.
DW
5 years?
Heck what happened to him releasing his 2011 tax returns?
Nah, there are still bunches who won’t vote for him even with a Ryan pick. Ryan is a buffoon but the country has had buffoons running it before. Nothing new.
He has to file them first. Which means the poor accountant needs to tally up the gajillions and then use creative accounting to write off horseys, upgrades to the mansions, etc,etc. It takes a long time to figure out how to make 21 million a smaller number so that you can pay the same taxes as a burger king employe.
Bingo!
Just playing a fracking damn tit for tat game. I can’t tell you how disgusted I am with both sides of this clusterfrack. They do not represent me and there needs to be a way to have a vote of no confidence. They have abdicated any claim to legitimacy or respect.
Ha!
Vote third party or write someone in. You shouldn’t be forced to choose between bad and worse.
it doesn’t make any difference whether it is 5 or 10 years. I believe that with tax returns as long as Romney’s there will be plenty of things for the Obama campaign to pick at. Partnership income from various LLC’s or individual investments will create a cry for details on those entities. For Romney it would become an unending demand for more. I am surprised he even answered with the percentages that he did pay.
What this actually shows is the complexity of the tax code, and the vast number of special applications (read loopholes) that the US congress has written into the tax code. Every time I hear Obama or any other politician call for a tax incentive for some worthy cause (e.g. hiring veterans or training unemployed workers) I cringe as that will go to reduce some 1%’s taxes at some point in the future.
That’s a big 10-4
I think the Obama Team thinks that they can bury Mitt with the information in those 5 years of tax returns, especially 2008 and 2009 where he might not have paid any taxes. They are not looking for transparency but fist full of facts with which they can beat Romney over the head again and again until election day.
You are right. Neither of those SOBs is getting my vote. But that is not enough. It is going to take some sort of movement to scare the living shit out of them and, more importantly, their paymasters. I don’t see mass demonstrations surviving the militarized police assaults. Massive strikes won’t work because those that have a job cannot risk losing their meager paycheck or even more critical, their health “care”. The water is boiling, but too many frogs don’t even realize it yet.
I’d like to argue that point.
I’d like to, but I can’t. The GOP has gotten everything they could possibly want out of this administration. “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
It’s so funny, and I mean funny ha-ha. The GOP did the same thing as last time in their VP pick. They were behind, needed a “bold move” to inspire the base, but alienated everybody else with their prick pick Ryan.
Oh well. The 1% are happy and we, the 99% are still screwed.
OTOH, at least that 21st century Marie Antoinette Ann Romney won;t be riding her damn horse around the White House rose garden. Silver lining don’t ya’ know.
They don’t need the tax returns. They’re beating him over the head without them. The pulic is not gonna vote for this arrogant, presumtious, narcissistic asshold or his privileged wife.
It’s game, saet, and match.
Willard says all are “small-minded” for wanting the returns.
Didn’t Willard ask to see Petey’s returns? Thusly is not Willard “small-minded by his own definition.
They won’t realize a thing until the 1%ers pull them out of the pot and begin feasting on their carcasses.
Have I every questioned you? We’ve got a big problem and I don;t know how to solve it unless….enough people form a third party. Now, we can’t run our OWN candiudate, BUT, we could control enough votes to decide which of the bough and paid for by the 1% candidates gets elected. For those not around then, George Wallace’s third party run for president threw the election to Nixon. Not that that was their plan, it just worked out that way.
Spot on!!!
Well and truly said, OmAli.
DW
Romnney is proving to be so hypocritical concerning this. Americans don’t like hypocrits, liars, tax cheats, people who have elevators for the cars and jerkwads who have $100 million in their IRA.
I can’t wait for the debates. Romney is gonna have to do a dance around all these questions like Sammy Davis, Jr. on coke.
Knockin’ ‘em out of the park, today, OmAli!
;~DW
Who the hell is Obama to offer a deal on information for voters?
Hey, hey, hey…….we’ve been loking fro a name for our third party movement…….How about the “Frog Party“???????
Sometimes I think she gots one of them “corked” bats.
Ah, but you forget the U.S. electorate is the most misinformed, ill-informed and most easily manipulated electorate of any in the advanced industrialized world. The Koch’s and the Addelson’s of the world are well aware of that fact otherwise they wouldn’t be making the “investment” they are making.
Works for me!
I think it’s going to be squeaky close. I also think the MOTU don’t care who wins. They’ve put chips down on red AND blue and have bought off the casino security. They figure they win either way.
There needs to be some serious discussion about figuring out how to ensure the next party to take the place of the imploding Democratic party avoids being bought and sold like a commodity and some serious strategy on how to make them viable local, state and federal so they can compete with the bought and paid for corporate party.
For the record I don’t think the MOTU are as bright as they think they are OR the electorate is as stupid as they think we are. That may be their fatal flaw.
We got more than our share, that’s for sure. But look at the polls. More and more of the frogs are beginning to feel the heat. More and more of the sheeple are wondering, WTF????
Obama is only “worth” about $10 million, so most folks will be able to identify with him, one imagines, ncg?
I will note that it takes two to tango … but it is very likely that no one will ask Obama any questions about his record on financial fraud which he has abetted or the other kind of “killing” he is involved with, that ain’t financial.
Ah, well …
Them lesser weevils … ya know what I mean?
;~DW
Sometimes I even amaze myself.
I’m off to look for a logo.
No, you haven’t, and I appreciate your sincerity and do not mind you doing it now. I don’t know if voting third party is the answer or would make things worse, I truly don’t. But this cannot go on the way it is going. At some point we must stop playing the game.
Did you read the article about not voting? I don’t want to reopen the shittarie about the diary. Please don’t anyone go there cause I will be really po’d if you do. But I am sincerely wondering if a movement like that is what it might take. I don’t think we can change this through established means. At some point you have to throw yourself on the gears and bring it to a halt and change the rules. I don’t want a revolution. I don’t want violence. But masses of people in the streets will be met with violence. How can you be attacked violently if you aren’t there? I don’t really know what I am talking about, but I think we need to talk about new ways of dealing with this.
You always have good points. OTOH, I’ll bet some questions DO come up that will require Obama to put on his tapshoes. Extrajudicial executions on foreign soil, GITMO, continuation of FISA policies just like under Bush, NO bankster prosecutions…… Obamka ain;t gonna have no cake walk either.
I put it down to technique, the science of the concentrated swing … as well as a keen eye, superb reflexes, great timing, and that rhythm “thinige”, ncg.
:~DW
I do think a peaceful revolution can be had if we can get 12-15% of the electorate to unite under a third party banner. We will need a lightning rod, however. I don;t know where he or she will come from.
Boiling frog party
I think it’a ALL IN THE HIPS.
Let’s hope we can get to the knob on the stove before that happens.
Well, there is certainly an abundance of hips involved :)
You really think there are gonna be questions like that, ncg?
The Republicans are not gonna ask them, for obvious reasons … and the media is much too polite, to do so.
I doubt there is even much mention of the, you know, economy … before the questions move on to things like, “When do each of you see the war with Iran beginning?” and “Is that quaint piece of paper, the Constitution, really relevant anymore?”
Now, if third party candidate were allowed (get that “allowed”?) to take part in the debate … those questions would damned well be asked … and, if they were not answered in satisfactory manner, then they would be pursued … which is ANOTHER reason that other candidates SHOULD not onlt be “allowed” but invited to participate …
Ah, well …
DW
Now, I ain’t gonna dispute ya, on that, ncg, ‘cuz there’s a good deal to be said about being hip and the moves associated thereabouts …
You know, the wiggle-room?
What you think I mean?
;~DW
That is a critical front to work on, DW. How to get those voices into the debate, here and in the MSM, where too many voters still get their “news”. I am very aware and appreciative of your efforts in that area.
Damn you, autocorrect! I keep typing ‘their’ and the iPad responds with ‘techie’. Go figure.
Thank you, edit feature.
Yes, we should not be afraid to consider whatever means are necessary to demonstrate that both these elections and the “governments” that result from these elections are NOT legitimate.
Withholding “consent” may possibly be the only real option left, OmAli.
And, that reminds me of the Declaration of Independence … and what it had to say about governments which do not represent the will of the people … nor consider the well-being of the people … above all else.
DW
The League of Women’s Voters usually sponsor this, don’t they. I’ve been fairly satisfied as to how they run the show. Obama is gonna have to eat some crow I’d bet.
Have to go finish the yard work, but I’ll check back later. Have I told you lately how much I appreciate your thoughtfulness and humor when you are commenting?
Thanks everyone. We are all in this together.
That’s very nice of you. From one frog to another.
Are your feet hot?????
The Women’s League of Voters gave up control of the debates, some years ago, ncg, the legacy parties now totally control the debates and bow only to the dictates of the mass media …
DW
You and OmAli, ncg, are superb on the threads.
Now we, frogs, so long as we don’t all croak together when we croak, is just gonna have to stick together and start taking our country back … otherwise things ain’t gonna pan out too well.
Hmmm, lookit them bubbles …
Yeah, muh feet ARE gettin’ kinda warm …
What ya suppose it is … that the climate “change” we keep hearin’ about?
;~DW
Sorry to say but the presidential debates was taken away from the LOWV some elections ago. The “two” parties wanted to get control of the debates so “they” could shut out others and claim that really is no alternative to “them” that people are interested in.
OK, DW, as usual you beat me to it. I, myself, am non-alcoholic in preference, but I will afford you whatever you want.
The criteria for qualifying for the presidential debates this year can be found here.
Ah, well now, ‘twould seem that you’ve fleshed-out the response more than a little, BearCountry, so I’d be more than happy to share a wee bit of Green Tea wi’ you whenever ‘toccasion permits.
;~DW
You do not deny that the debates are controlled by the legacy parties, now do you, oldgold?
And that, old chap, IS the salient and specific “point” of no honest “return”.
DW
Here is a link to the history of the debates and the League of Women Voters. The debates have been run by the commission on presidential debates since 1992. The League was essentially stripped of its power to run the ground rules for the debates in 1988 with behind-the-scenes work by the “two” parties. You can see the story here.
Thanks, DW.
Ah, once again, BearCountry, you flesh out the facts most wonderfully. My true appreciation and admiration for the amazing speed of your most significant “response”.
Why, even oldgold will have to concede that history as irrefutable evidence of who, actually, controls access to the debates.
Rules which effectively rule out alternative viewpoints by setting “standards” where few, if any, are appropriate, it being to the people, and only to the people, to determine the legitimacy of those who might best represent them, is the “work” of a bogus “commission” … designed intentionally to limit debate and control access … nothing more … and nothing less.
Just as it says in the Declaration, it is for the people to decide … not the parties in “power”, NOT those of wealth and privilege …
DW
Good commentary. Thanks for the post.
This is becoming tediously obvious that the 1% has decided to use RMoney’s tax returns (or lack thereof) as a big *distraction* from discussing real issues. OTOH, I would like to see those returns cuz ya gotta know that Willard probably paid way less than 13% in many years. Plus HOW have we gotten to the point where *everyone* is complacently satisfied that this rich job-destroying shithead only gets to pay 13%??? Have you noticed that? AND he wants to lower the tax rates even more.
Sheesh. All pushing the Overton window to the right and getting credulous brainwashed citizens to go along with this circus sideshow.
They all stink. I will not vote for either of these rip-off artists.
OmAli makes many good points. I truly don’t know what the next steps are, myself, but we’re really fucked anymore. Sad to say.
Obviously, Obama is president and a Goldman Sachs puppet which runs everything having to do with government funds. Obama knows the truth about Romney’s taxes. So there must be something to hid based on the behavior of the players.
DW #74
I do not deny that.
Well, good on you, oldgold.
Do you see how allowing the legacy parties to control access to the debate even further erodes the electoral and democratic rights of the people by denying them the opportunity of hearing ALL of ideas of the possible candidates and the questions that these other candidates might raise?
Thus we have, built-in, the electoral college, which deliberately makes all votes NOT equal … as well as the powers of BOTH SCOTUS and Congress to nullify or affect electoral outcomes.
Instead of having greater and greater opportunity of meaningful choice, when the power of money is added in, as SCOTUS clearly intended in Citizens United, the people have less and less … meaningful representation … and fewer and fewer opportunities of expressing their will and giving … or withholding, their informed consent.
This is not evidence that either legacy party cares deeply about the needs and will of the people … it is undeniable evidence to the contrary.
It is anti-democratic, it is in contravention of the Declaration of Independence AND the Constitution … even as Congress seeks to destroy the right of free assembly, of free speech, and the redress of legitimate grievance.
As well, the history which BearCountry has provided us shows that the “leadership” of the legacy parties have knowingly and cynically sought to bring about this state of affairs … and BOTH of these parties intend to “profit” from this heavy-handedness to the cost, directly, of the people and justice.
Therefore, neither party is more or less “evil” … they are both EQUALLY complicit in this this shameful electoral travesty and in the undermining of legitimate democracy and the well-being of the people.
There is not even the matter of “degree” … between them, in this specific regard … everything else takes on, therefore the deceitful appearance of deliberate sham … the Kabuki, as it is rightfully termed, of both parties playing a “game” to serve the interests, not of the people, as this history clearly shows, but of the monied elite who have off-shored our productive capacity and the rightful endeavors of the people … in pursuit of nothing but money and power.
Neither of the legacy parties has acted with honor or with integrity.
And we are now at the point where neither legitimately represent the people, the well-being of the people, or the best interests of civil society.
Their evil is monumental and their disdain immense.
Both matched only by their overweening hubris …
DW
I’m raising a family on a single income, and my tax rate last year was close to 29%. Does this piece of shit Romney really think his 13% rate is something to brag about?
Right now I don’t care about his tax returns. Hammer the claim itself as being ludicrous and out of touch. Because when the returns are finally released or leaked, you can be damn sure they’ll show way less than 13%.
DW # 81
On several points I would agree with you. On a number of others I disagree. In particular, I disagre that both paries are “EQUALLY complicit.” For instance, the Democratic party is not involved in enacting strict voter registration laws designed to prevent poor people from voting.
That is why, oldgold, I said, “… in this specific regard …”, anticipating, as I was, your “distinction”.
But again, it is merely part of the “game” so that the Dems can ride to the ostensible rescue … to “rescue” those who might be expected to vote for … wait for it … the Dems … as there are no other genuine “permitted” choices, are there?
I’ve not the slightest doubt but that you disagree …
However, you have agreed sufficiently that you cannot claim that either party is “above” the essential “deceit”, well, you can, but it is a hollow and weak claim … a legacy party claim, in my opinion.
You have agreed, admitted, even, that the system is rigged, that it is “closed”.
And, before you say, “Rules is rules”, ponder the “rules” of slavery … that “peculiar institution”, which some still yet try to justify as “rational” … and then consider the “rules” of debt peonage, as in Congress specifically determining that “student debt” could not be erased through bankruptcy.
This nation’s “leadership” is morally bankrupt, it is thoroughly corrupt, and whether you like it or not that includes both legacy parties, their basic “policies”, and their fundamental dishonesty.
You have several times suggested that there is no choice but Obama, by which I assume you to mean reasonable and rational “choice”?
If you find that sufficient, or adequate, or acceptable, then that is YOUR choice.
However, you cannot claim that such is a honestly democratic choice, as when there are so FEW choices, deliberately made so by Obama’s party and Romney’s party, there is no choice BUT the tyranny of contrived and brutally dishonest “more of the same” … or … the choice of actually trying to create REAL and MEANINGFUL choice. Your “path” is to accede to the former, while many of us here will choose and have chosen another more hopeful and human path.
I have little doubt but that your man will “win”, but it is a meaningless victory for it adds to the defeat of the people and the continuing assault upon the Rule of Law … it means continuing and endless war, even if it is a “new” kind of war … a war of drone technology … and it means, as I see it, a continuation of that other war, the class war, and Obama has made VERY clear whose side he is on.
Those who give him their consent urge him on and are as responsible as is he for the outcome of this election … which is NOT the “winning”, but the step-by-step loosing of humanity, of decency, of justice, of reason, and of rational relationship to the planet.
In those things Obama is little different, in the end, from Romney or ANY other legacy politician … they all care little for anything but themselves, money, and power. The are not filled with empathy but with antipathy.
DW
I don’t see any effective difference between Obama and Romney. Same sh*t different election. Both candidates represent complete bullsh*t. Obama is nothing more than the 1% er’s snake oil salesman/appeaser for the masses. The silver lining with Romney winning is that it could expedite desperately needed change. Things obviously need to get much worse before they will get better.