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Lost on him (photo: davelawrence8/flickr)
Senate Majority Harry Reid made waves when he claimed a source connected to Bain Capital informed him it is likely Mitt Romney didn’t pay taxes for several years while at Bain. We don’t know if this is true. There is probably no legal way even for Reid to prove it since Mitt Romney refuses to release more tax returns.
The attack though has clearly gotten under Romney’s skin because it is the type of claim that is believable. Romney, a man who took most of his income at the lower capital gains rate and uses numerous offshore accounts, likely did pay a shockingly low tax rate for several years.
While defending himself Romney demanded Reid provide proof to back up his claims, but the irony is lost on him. From the Huffington Post:
“Well, it’s time for Harry to put up or shut up. Harry’s going to have to describe who it is he spoke with because of course, that’s totally and completely wrong,” Romney told Hannity in a radio interview. “It’s untrue, dishonest, and inaccurate. It’s wrong. So I’m looking forward to have Harry reveal his sources and we’ll probably find out it’s the White House. Look, the Obama campaign is going to do everything in its power to try and talk about anything besides the president’s record. Home prices, median American incomes, gasoline prices, 23 million underemployed or unemployed.
The simple fact is that Romney has made claims about his tax returns that he refuses to provide proof for. The position of the Romney campaign is that the everyone should simply trust what Romney says about his taxes even though Romney won’t verify them by releasing his returns. Now that Reid is the one making claims about Romney’s tax returns, though, Romney ironically claims it is totally unacceptable for someone to make statements unless they are willing to provide the proof to back them up.
In the same interview Romney attacks Reid for not being willing to “put up” proof to back up his claims, Romney makes his own counterclaims that Reid is not telling the truth, while he himself is still refusing to “put up” the simple piece of proof that would show if Reid is wrong.
I wonder how long it will be before Reid will respond by saying if Romney is going to call him a liar, Romney needs to “put up or shut up” by releasing his returns to prove Reid is wrong.
63 Comments
I guess we just have to trust Mitt? Wrong!
Harry’s not running for President, Willard. Put up or shut up.
He set out to show everyone he could be a statesman.
Instead, we find out he’s the biggest dicktree in the United States, man.
…and now he’s back telling people to put up or shut up. You just can’t buy comedy like this…
I don’t think Mitt can shut Harry up without hurting himself worse than he hurts Harry.
Is this an actual round of hardball from the Dems? If so, WOW!
Prediction: Mitt will try “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours” with a democrat who can’t afford to play. Pelosi’s taxes would be interesting, if she files jointly. Ditto Feinstein. Hell, even Holy Joe might not want to play if he files jointly.
Boxturtle (And this is a weak spot that will hurt with the Tea Party IMO)
I’m not so sure that there could be no proof of Romney’s tax status aside from what he decides to release now to the public. Tax returns he released earlier, to parties other than the public, are still floating around.
We know for a fact that he released returns to the McCain campaign when he was being considered for the VP slot. The fact that Reid’s informant is referred to as a “Bain insider” implies that Romney released tax info to Bain Capital. Perhaps he had to as a Bain corporate officer, or perhaps the release was part of those negotiations over the terms of his departure from the company that we hear so much about.
Now, getting Romney’s returns from the IRS without his permission would obviously be both illegal, and probably fairly easily traceable to the guilty party. But it isn’t clear to me (others more knowledgable of the law in this respect please pipe in) what sort of criminal or civil liability there might be to releasing tax returns to the public that Romney had himself already released to other parties. Even if such liabilities exist, it does seem clear that the sources of this secondarily released tax info would be much harder to pin down than a direct release from the IRS.
Bottom line — it seems likely that Romney tax info is out there, and in forms that could be made public without undue risk to whoever makes it public.
Presumably, what’s going on now, is that the Romney camp is trying to make the way the tax info is released at least a distracting sideshow to the contents of the tax info that is released. If they just released themselves, the contents would be the only story. They obviously don’t want that, so we can assume that the contents are pretty bad for them. Their least bad alternative, since they apparetnly can’t prevent release of the contents, is to have a competing story come out at the same time, a story of unethical, if not criminal or tortious, behavior from the people who release the info.
A further advantage to waiting for others to release Romney’s tax info, is that this third party release is bound to be partial, and perhaps at least somewhat inaccurate. That way, when they do their own release, the inaccuracies of the third party release will be at least part of the story, and they will be better able to get away with only partial release.
Just to be clear – Romney does not come to this “he said/he said he was told” exchange with no history. In very similar circumstance, his run for the Massachusetts governorship was marked by similar claims about what was in his state returns for Mass and Utah. Romney was adamant that he had filed as a Massachusetts resident, until after months of this, the Boston Globe found a way to expose what Romney had actually done. In fact he had claimed Utah residency in order to get a $54,000 tax break. At that point, of course, Romney lied again with the claim that he did not know what was in his returns.
Romney lied repeatedly to the Massachusetts Election Board and to Massachusetts voters. His excuse was that he could not be expected to know, and he could not remember. Of course, he was driving a car with Utah license plates at the time. In a crowing bit of irony, he retroactively switched his residence to be able to claim he met the residency test in the Massachusetts Constitution.
All this is simply one more clue that Romney regards the vast majority of the American population as “you people.” In Romneyland, we are unworthy of his respect – sheep to be sheared, pigs to be slaughtered. He owes us no duty, least of all the duty to speak the truth. As any farmer will tell you, there are some things you don’t let the pigs know. Expect to see those tax returns about when hell freezes over.
Dana Bash told Anderson Cooper that her source agrees with Reid’s allegations. Her source knows the person who gave Reid the info and who had access to Mitt’s tax record.
So the new bumper sticker will read:
You lie, Mittens./s
Well, it’s time for Harry to put up or shut up. Harry’s going to have to describe who it is he spoke with
Harry doesn’t have to do jack, and Mitt has just made it easier for Harry Reid to show how toothless Mitt is.
I’m actually kind of surprised that Mitt put himself in this weak position. This is the kind of tactical error schoolboys make on the playground.
Doesn’t speak well for his ability to negotiate on the world stage with other powers, does it?
Thi is the first thing Harry has done or said that I really agree with. “Hardball”??? I don’t know. I DO think the dems are finally “in the game” at least. Harry has really put Mitt between a rock and hard place.
I’m actually having fun.
I heard his name was “Elongated Larynx”.
One word……just one word……..McGyver!
LOL. He’s “deep” under cover. This surely is getting interesting.
Excellent post. Well put.
Do you mean “deep, deep, deep undercover”???
(From Beverly Hills Cop”.)
Damn, I thought the one word was “plastics” or maybe “42″.
Mitt is Rich. Therefore, he paid few or no taxes. Hate the game, not the playah.
Should we be expecting a “non-denial denial” from the Romney camp????
A “modified limited hangout”.
ysd……not necessarily mutually exclusive options.
Yeah, I’m having fun too.
Think Mitt will hate life enough to withdraw in order to keep his taxes non-public? I doubt it.
And I wonder if the Tea Party will start a floor fight over Mitt. They’ve never liked him and even his strongest supporters will admit that the tax issue is hurting.
Boxturtle (And may I be the first to demand Mitt release his long form birth cert? :-) )
I heard HER name was Ann.
Boxturtle (*rimshot*)
He was born on the planet Kolob where god is.
Well I should rephrase to indicate that there are plenty of other things to cause disgust and loathing in Mitt, but not paying taxes is probably entirely legal for Romney and his ilk.
LOL…My largest Ed McMahon belly laugh
Oooooh, Ooooooh. I remember floor fights. Do you???? For you younguns……that’s an “E” ticket in political circles.
Rumor is, (unconfirmed) although the family lived in Michigan, MItt was born in a Canadian hospital.
Dems should start that rumor.
Point taken. B ut not paying taxes, although “legal” is “unpatriotic.” I think Romney just doesn’t know how to BE an American.
(TM) (c) Mitt Romney
I prefer the rumor that Mittens is a unicorn. After all, he hasn’t denied it!
I prefer the rumor that Mitt eats unicorn meat. It’s probably not kosher, either.
The rich have no allegiance to country, any of them. Their only allegiances are to class and capital.
Hmm…that high forehead COULD be fake, there’s enough room to hide a horn. And we’ve never seen him with his shoes off, so there COULD be hooves. And anybody who could have seen a tail is probably blind for life.
Hmmm..what other creature can we think of that has horns, hooves, and could fit in a tailored suit?
Boxturtle (Does he wear cologne to cover up the smell of brimstone?)
Mormon blood feud. Perhaps Romeny’s tithing to the church will be been deemed insufficient by the LDS.
Romney,
You want us to vote for you to be the leader of our country and you can’t even pay taxes to our country without stashing your money overseas to hide it so you pay a much lower percentage than the average working American does?
Really?
Romney’s campaign slogan
Believe in America
But stash your money offshore
I’m going to say this in the nicest way I can think of:
Go fuck yourself Romney you treasonous piece of rich shit.
TPTB made a big mistake putting this guy before the American people.
THAT oughta deliver FLorida to Obama!!!!
I think TPTB are as shocked as anybody that Romney squiggled out of the GOP CLOWN CAR the winner. Sometimes bad shit happens to bad people.
WOW. You shortchange God and bad things happen.
“The Donald”????
(Under that hair anything is possible)
Maybe you are right.
TPTB think Americans are going to excuse a rich man for not paying taxes when they do?
They are delusional. Even if they vote for Romney they are going to end up hating the rich before his 4 years are up as their noises are going to be rubbed into the stench of the criminal rich for 4 years while they are being driven out of the middle class.
I’m not sure it was a mistake that Mittens is the candidate. The TPTB *like* Obama and want him reelected. Romney is a good sacrificial lamb.
Look over there! An obscenely rich man with a top hat and cane wants to be president! Meanwhile, O is doing the same bidding that Romney would do, but with the blessing of the peasants.
Well put, as usual.
That made me laugh.
The “yer fired” hand snake is a dead giveaway of his evil repilian origin.
Several of our colleagues here, and you know them, have been saying the same thing for a long time. That TPTB wanted romney all along because they knew he couldn’t beat Obama. They “want Obama on that fence, they need Obaba on that fence.”
I have finally come around to thinking that too. BUt, it could be a little bit of both. Gotta admit, ANY one of the 8 GOP candidates woulda been a loser in anything other than a knucklead contest. And that,being a Texan, woulda gone to Perry hands down.
I’m on a roll today. Had my two Dos Equis lunch at 11:30.
Bingo! Nailed it.
While I’m chomping on my popcorn – because: why not “enjoy” myself?? – I just feel that this is Round 10zillion & 2 in the ongoing Kabuki Show.
Did Harry Reid actually *find* his balls? Or did some other filthy rich shithead PAY Harry to “find” them??
Methinks this is all orchestrated. Just saying…
… and then: pass the popcorn!
Hypocrisy, more egregious than irony.
Tell me the truth…are you the most interesting man in the world? Stay thirsty, my friend.
*splorf*
That’s a keyboard you owe me!
Boxturtle (Did you formerly work for Johnny Carson?)
…and the band played on, while the ship sank. (No more popcorn.)
I heard Ebay. Who’d a thunk???????
Romney is the antiwar candidate. He has consistently refused to support American wars:
He uses offshore banks to avoid paying taxes while the country is at war.
He spent the Vietnam war in Paris, France.
Even his five sons have refused to participate in America’s current decade long war.
I credit Johnny, George Carlin, you, my other colleagues here, and of course, the republican party.
I’m here every day. PLease remember to tip your waitresses.
I think Mormons are generally like that. (Serious, no sarcastic)
But if the MIC wanted one, I’ll bet he’d accommodate them. LOng as no Romneys were on the front line. Somebody’s gotta stay home and protect the horses.
John McCain may be Harry Reid’s source.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/carl-gibson/mccain-romney-tax-returns_b_1726619.html
I realized today that I may be paranoid. Why? I can’t shake the feeling that this is a ruse –similar to the events that led to Dan Rather’s takedown. It’s quite possible that Senator Reid’s source is telling the truth, but if this entire discussion is built on an intentional lie, the Dems may not be able to stem the tide of calls for his resignation (unjustified or not).
Untrue.
Willard’s a two faced weasel who supported the war in Vietnam yet hid out in Paris as a supposed ‘missionary. If he was so against the war why didn’t Willard declare himself a CO and do voluntary service here as required of a CO.
Neither Willard’s father, himself or any of his sons have served this country.
This…..
I bet everyone esp. repugnicans Barry is a shoe in.
Certainly, one possibility is that the returns are bad news for the Romney campaign, but not really disastrous, and the current dance they are going through is some sort of way to minimize even that slight embarrassment.
You have to assume that the returns are at least somewhat embarrassing to explain why they don’t just release and make this all go away.
If that’s as bad as it is, if all the returns will show is something bad but not fatal, then the scenario you envision becomes a possibility. Their strategy under this theory is to plant the idea, maybe with fake returns, maybe with highly selective returns that give an false impression of the whole, that the returns would be really damaging if revealed. They provoke the Dems into making exaggerated charges that, when they finally do release actual returns, will look overblown. That way, the overblown Dem charges become a counter-narrative to the mildly embarrassing returns, at least partially compensating for the damage the returns do, maybe even ending with a net plus for thier side, when they would have faced at least a mild downside if they had played this straight and just released the returns without going through this dance.
>
romney = no sense of irony (scary analysis)
obama = no sense of human decency (scary proven fact)
‘i’ve got 2 words for you, predator drone’
barack obama at super-funny press gala
‘nope, no WMD under here’
gwbush at super-hilarious press gala
its going to be so super-funny-hilarious when the next president from the repubs or the dems blows the living crap out of brown babies and throws sick and American babies on the streets ! effing hilarious that American exceptionalism!!
http://acmeartscollective.com/thedemise/2012/04/09/verbatim-number-37-1/
however – the irony that FDL’s advert on this page is “Liberty University online” where they will train (apparently very white looking suburbanites from the accompanying photo) students to be ‘champions for Christ’ – was not lost on this reader ..
together with an article about the ‘difference’ between how 2 rich elected officials game the horrible tilted to benefit the wealthy tax system in the US .. reid says ‘romney paid no taxes’ ? let’s see .. how long has reid been in the DC…started in the house in 1982 and moved to the senate in 1987 >
so from my figuring he has had the past twenty five (25!) years to change the tax system to not favor the richest greedy asshats from sea to shining sea and did .. NOTHING to end the offshore tax hiding that is rampant in the US?? Am I missing something or is this jackass talking out both sides of his expensive food eating mouth?
now that’s irony piled upon irony (or perhaps irony piled upon political hackery identified improperly as ‘news’) – or maybe not.. hope it’s worth the bucks, FDL
yo Mitt: put out or shut up.
All savvy observations of the endgame now bound to play out. Thanks for rehearsing them for us.
I’m not at all sure that young’uns would have a clue as to what an E ticket is.