We need a third party option for all the voters
who are fed up with lesser of two evil-ism.

As it is, I plan to vote Green rather than stay home.

A third choice? From your mouth to God’s ears, Jon.

Shorter: I definitely plan to vote against that guy, unless I change my mind.

Despite Obama’s protestations that he would be happy to be a one-term president, I don’t see him bowing out. I see him as supremely narcissistic, to the point of delusion.

At one point early I was convinced that–conservative as he might turn out to be–there was no way that he could squander his advantages (sanity, cool demeanor, etc.) enough to lose to the crazy Republican right in 2012. How wrong I was! Given all the high (false) hopes it aroused, his presidency is the single biggest political catastrophe of my lifetime.

x2.

his little tirade against he poor ever suffering Palestians made me sick

I wonder if this means the thugs go out and try to find a more middle of the road acceptable candidate, like Christie?

This poll basically fits with my current thinking. Do I plan to vote for Obama? No. If offered two choices, would I pick him over an R? Of course!

But on my ballot, I will have more than two choices. In fact, I’ll have the choice to write in and will likely take that choice.

Also, if you live in a Red state with Winner Take All Electoral College votes, there shouldn’t be any waffling about whom to vote for–I encourage all Big D Democrats to vote down ticket or write in. Send a message against the Dems and against the Electoral College.

Do you mean like a Christian Romney?

A low turn-out would favor the Rs, no?

(I plan a write-in vote myself)

The road ahead hasn’t ever been this clear. The US is headed down the toilet, no Dem will challenge Obama, and the R candidates are exactly the same as Obama. We’re headed for major austerity and the total destruction of the middle class. Game over.

I’m with you. UNless I change MY mind.

A low turnout will sink Obama and put whatever dastardly, despicable black-hearted bastard the republicans nominat in the White House.

If that is Perry, we’de better pack our bags, mittens and all, and head to Canada. Trust me, I’m from Texas and I know shit when I see it.

I’ll vote for the Prohibition Party before I vote for another GOP/Dem candidate. I was through with our phoney “2 party” system years ago.

Not a chance of them doing that. They are too enamored with the reactionary right’s fanaticism.

I’ve been espousing this philosophy for months. My vote is a throw away in the red state in which I live.

I’d love to pack my bags anyway. It’s a lose-lose situation. Just that what we’d have if we got a republican, especially a Texas republican, would be much greater. My first political enlightenment came under another Texan, a giant of a president, who did great good and great harm, LBJ. Although if someone asked me 45 years ago if I could ever look fondly on LBJ after Viet Nam, I’d have just shaken my head. But the man knew how to rock, good, bad or indifferently.

Yes, you (all) are exactly right. A low turnout will sink Obama, but at the rate that the republicans are messing with the voting process anyhow, voting at all probably wont actually matter.

Now its mostly just a matter of voting or not voting as your conscience dictates.

At least when the next insane clown is president, there wont be any excuse for us (liberals) to hold back our outrage or to be polite.

Also, carguy, Canada is a very good and logical idea..or here in lovely warm Mexico. Its a big world out here.

It’s hard to vote for a man who approves a murder as a tool of political change, but when it comes to Palestine, peaceful means are not tolerated.

Of course, if Obama loses and a GOTPer wins, they aren’t going to have much luck turning around the economy because their economic beliefs are drastically counter to what reality needs. But they’re lucky, they can blame Obama for the first four years, even if it wasn’t his doing. But the spiral downward will be increasing in momentum.

I’d love to believe in miracles, but I don’t see one coming for us all. The right has served up a major meal of fictions that are digestable to the masses, and they have their tummy’s full of non-nutritious junk, but right now they feel satisfied with it. When reality truly takes hold, they’ll discover they’re just along for the ride, with no say so in anything.

European Union may be in the tank by 2012. Global econ tanked. But corporations will have the money and power. Party loyalists will kling to their structures. A third party candidate could in this environment pull off a coup with the two main parties and congress despised by outsiders.

Agree, The people that post that Obama and Perry are the same need to do a little research or try being a public school teacher in Texas. Better yet try being an innocent on death row.

Whoever gets the Green Party nomination has my vote. Not that it makes any difference, because I live in Utah.

Revolution.

Zinn’s FDR is the one who saw revolution, or serious social upheaval, coming (despite 25% unemployment there were lots of labor strikes, for example) and did the bare minimum he (FDR) needed to do to preserve the system for the PTB. The current PTB don’t show any signs of recognizing that there might be serious social unrest. Though, if there is, it is in such an early stage and will take so long to develop, that the “green shoots” of revolution can easily be dismissed.

A third party would have to offer
a) a believable candidate who has little baggage, political or otherwise
b) a candidate who has both social and business success, and preferably one with international experience
c) an ability to muster enough ground forces and money to be able to wage a truly monumental campaign
d) the ability to withstand the attacks from not only both parties, but all of the “think tanks” and foundations and PACs who are out there to promote things for their own well being.

Face it, Jesus couldn’t get elected in Texas. Not even if he was a high school football coach to boot.

The system is pretty “fixed”, sad to say. I’m to the point of believing that Obama was the creation of the system to provide us with an illusion until the potentially unchangeable reality came to roost.

You know, with all the compromises that Obama just had to make, and with all the campaign promises he broke in making those compromises, I’m not going to make another one myself by doing that lesser-evilism thing. I don’t care who the Republican nominee is. I’m not voting for Obama again. I’ll either write-in a vote or find a 3rd party I can vote for. No more compromises and no more lesser-evilism.

Politics is not solving the nations problems. We have to put our efforts where they do the most good. Focusing more inwardly on our own situation that we can change for the better. I have no faith in politicos making it better.
Hey Jude!
Hey Jude, don’t be afraid
You were made to go out and get her
The minute you let her under your skin
Then you begin to make it better

And any time you feel the pain
Hey Jude, refrain
Don’t carry the world upon your shoulder
For well you know that it’s a fool
Who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder
Na na na naa-naa
na-na-naa naaa

My opinion of LBJ has changed positsively over the years espesicllay after hearing the LBJ tapes. He got a lot of bad advise and downright lies about Viet Nam and that was a magnamous gesture not running again.

One thing nobody can dispute, he knew how to BE president and get things done. Nobody would have stood up to him like Cantor and McConnell and Boehner haveto this president. He woulda had the DOJ crawling up their ass and he woulda FOUND something on them and used it. “Walk softly and carry a big stick.” He didn;t say that but he practiced it.

I’m sure some will disagree.

But they may smell blood in the water.

I think you are right.

I hear San Miguel de Allende and Guanajuato are nice. As long as I got satellite TV, enchiladas, tacos and Dos Equis I’m happy.

Stay thirsty my friends.

J Edgar Hoover’s FBI of the 1930s couldn’t hold a candle to today’s technology driven surveillance, let alone the ability to overcome an armed revolt in America. Can you say “UAVs”?

I have contemplated Abby Hoffman. He was able to hide (relatively) for a decade in America, even though he was always on the FBI’s mind. With today’s technology for taking monitor images and comparing them to databases (bio-metrics?), he probably wouldn’t have been out there over a year. So if one decides to be a revolutionary, they better understand that there isn’t much of anywhere to hide.

It may take a version of the French Revolution here, but the outcome will not be any better than what we have now. There are no grand leaders who can come up with a new ruling document that is good for the citizenry, because the common guy doesn’t have any power. Traditional revolutions put into power the guy with the most ability to ruthlessly take over and eliminate opposition. Right wing, left wing, breast, makes no difference.

This is also a dynamic that could potentially encourage a Ross Perot like character to try to run

Rocky Anderson has made some rumblings. Is he in?

Thanks! I appreciate that. The guy really cared and tried to do what was best for the country.

None of you are particularly troubled about the prospect of Justices Ginsberg and Breyer moving on? Not concerned at all, are you, with President Perry, say, filling those spots? Stand up and testify, my brothers and sisters, for that 7-2 split. Show your love!

LBJ was underappreciated in his time b/c of the war in Viet Nam. But he did good things.

I’m not voting for Obama. He doesn’t know how to lead and I don’t particularly fancy a Democratic President that has no scruples about taking away my disability benefits or access to healthcare through the Medicare program. I’m abstaining from this election. I’m only 28 years old and I honestly could care less about our system of government nor acknowledge its legitimacy / jurisdiction over me.

Fuck Obama. I’ll take an actual Republican over someone pretending to be a Republican.

The next election could bring in a full fledged fuck fest of thugs in all branches of government. Get your flak jackets while you can. It’s gonna be a rough eight years.

No, Carguy, that was LBJ. Yes, when the “grand old men” of foreign policy finally figured out that they were wrong, and told LBJ, he was too far down the road and had far too much hubris to go back.

But LBJ came out of a system where he had been a kingmaker, and knew where many of the skeletons were buried, having helped the culprits bury them himself, often. He also knew who to use and what to go after. He and J. Edgar Hoover didn’t have any love for each other, but LBJ used Hoover for his own purposes, and Hoover returned the favor.

I agree, LBJ would have had McConnell, and Boehner, and most of the rest of the GOTP out behind the woodshed getting a good wholloping and then a reminder that the licking they just got could have been a lot worse. If Obama only had a tenth of the backbone LBJ had. Alas, he doesn’t.

This is one fundamental contradiction that we all need to absorb.

Readers, writers and commenters on FDL need to get ready for years of being blamed if the Democrats lose this election, because we failed to stifle our discontent and spread negative attitudes.

As an un-appologetic Nader voter I am already used to it, but it may come as a surprise to some of you when it suddenly hits.

Yes, that thought has come to me often. It’s bad enough with a 5-4 party split now, not to mention a 6-3 split based on religion, (6 of the 9 justices are Catholic) (so much for any choice items coming to court)

Lower the lifeboats, boys, and move away to avoid the suction as she goes down.

They can blame me all they want. The person they should blame is the sellout that’s currently occupying the White House.

Are you sure Obama is just pretending to be a republican? By the standards I used growing up (I’m nearly 60) he is an old school republican. But then again, in the last decade I’ve sort of decided that Bill Clinton really was, too.

As it pertains to policy decisions, there is zero difference between Obama and Perry. They both want to cut medicare and SS, they both keep the wars going, they both give everything to the banks and the rich.

Sorry, I misspoke. I meant that I’d rather have an actual republican candidate in office rather than a Democratic candidate who is closer to the republicans ideologically. At least you know where the Republican stands. Obama? Not so much. The only reason he’s hammering the jobs act and going after the millionaires is so he can get re-elected. Not because he actually thinks it’s the right thing to do. Given his track record over the last 2 and 1/2 years, I don’t trust Obama. Period. He’s too much of a chicken shit and tries to work with both sides. I can’t respect that.

Fierce urgency of the now, my ass. Vote him out.

One thing is for certain if Obama tanks the 2012 election: the Third Way, the Harold Ford and Evan Bayh types, and the beltway commentariat will call on the Democrats to “move to the center.” Yet again.

Another thing is for certain: the Democratic Party, as feckless as it is, will remain a serious obstacle to the creation of a truly progressive party.

nay nay nay, the guy’s nuthin but backbone

No wait, this poll cannot be correct. Obama has finally come around to the majority mainstream progressive policies with his latest speech. Who didn’t know this speech was 100% bullsh*t, politically motivated to get himself re-elected in 2012?

today’s technology driven surveillance

Searching for a needle in a haystack by adding more hay. Or as one wag has upped the ante: Searching for a needle in a needlestack by adding more needles. We need (heh) a really really big needlestack.

What successes has the NSA had? FBI? Won’t opine about JEH’s FBI bc I don’t know enough about it, but I do know today’s FBI couldn’t find a terriss if it were biting ‘em in the butt.

Just like today’s U.S. military can’t win a war, technology notwithstanding.

Besides revolutions require deaths by revolutionaries, wh included wholesale firing on civilians by military. Drones ain’t big enough to do that; will require calling out the troops.

But taking my strike example, that is a good reason for conducting revolution inside buildings instead of on the streets. Have to be many more than just one, like Koresh’s compound wh USG took could easily destroy. But I never said the task was easy.

Headed down the toilet – agreed. But to say there isn’t a difference between Obama and any GOP who is running is the type of delusion I heard in 2000 and 2004.
If McCain had won in 08, things would be worse, because the guy is unstable, and look who would be in the wings?
Obama would do well to switch Biden to State and have Hillary run with him. It would cement the election, and it would drive the Right Wing over a precipice that they could never climb out of.

Voters are like politicians: they change their position whenever it suits them. If this is the poll figure on election day, then, Obama is toast. (figuring 1 or 2% will vote third party).

But, until then, their vote is up for bid.

I don’t even think he tries to work with both sides. The GOP and the Blue dogs, yes. The few progressives in Congress, not at all.

I can’t think of one thing he’s done that hasn’t been weakened to the point of being useless. HCR? LOL. Financial reform? ROFLMAO. The wars? Tears. Domestic rights? Anguish.

Yes, and I choose to support him over Hillary. My bad.

As I say, I think he was the “Wall Street” candidate. (sort of an American Manchurian candidate) Only no one came to our rescue. Would I have wanted McCain and Palin? ef NO. But I also feel that Obama has damaged the democratic label beyond repair. It’s too bad we don’t have a “real” GOP president to blame the rest of this mess on.

It’s what he should have done from the start. He should have also nominated a more competent DOJ AG other than Holder and actually gone after the Bush administration for breaking the law. But no, he wimped out like the chicken shit he is and didn’t prosecute for fear of a “coup”

Please. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. Nothing will ever change. It’ll only stagnate and / or get worse.

Three things are going to be true about the 2012 presidential election:

1. The Republicans will nominate someone obnoxious.
2. The Republican will win.
3. It’s important for liberals to use this as an opportunity to make a statement that there is a price to be paid for being a secret Republican, DINO president.

Most of the people who voted for Ross Perot in 1992 are today’s TEA party who are actively courted by the Republican politicians. Obama and the rest of the Democratic leadership have contempt for liberals and take their votes for granted.

Please re-fresh my memory to the lyrics of “Oh Canada”?;-)
If I were younger, without any family responsibilities, I’d do all I could to move there. This country has had its historical moment in the sun, but now it’s just a race to the bottom. Considering the historical blood we have on our hands, perhaps a Perry in charge is a curse we deserve.

“I serve as a blank screen”, [Obama writes] “on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views.”

We weren’t listening, huh?

In addition, Obama has silenced all Democratic criticism of him or his policies. You know that if Bush, Perry, Mittens or whoever were in the WH pursuing the crap that Obama’s raining down on the world, there would be howls from Democrats. For whatever reason, with Obama in charge, crickets.

And Hudsonview 23, I’ve fallen for the damn “what about the Supreme Court” argument for 30 years and voted Democratic. But the price has become too large. I’m a lawyer, and as I’ve watched the “rule of law” shredded by this faux court, seen the absolute fools and wingers who’ve been elevated to the court, I’m giving up.

a) I’m gonna hope that Democrats will block crazy Republican nominees; and
b) I’m just not willing to watch our civil liberties destroyed, our population deprived of jobs, our environment destroyed — all of this by the person in the WH, not the court.

Voting to “save the court” is too expensive.

I have great faith that the first “FEMA” camp will be named after Sarah Palin, and the next after Paul Ryan. Those participating in sit-ins will find their way there very quickly. Not to mention that we don’t have the protesting ability that, say, the French do.

Now those who would rise up with their micro-arsenals and try to become American “Patriot” bands would find it tougher than they think. “Red Dawn” wasn’t all that realistic, IMO. Of course, the cynic in me says that the government would just have to stake out the mini-marts and wait for all those mini-revolutionaries to show up to replenish their supply of beer, and haul them in.

What was that about a tyrannical government and the right of its citizens to rise up and abolish it, while putting a new system of govt in place?

“…at least you know where the Rupublican stands.” That’s pathetic.
We knew where Cheney and Bush stood. Like we’re all the better for it? You’re 28, but when you get some historical perspective perhaps you’ll see it differently.

No, we’re worse off for it. I expected Obama to order the DOJ to begin an investigation to formally prosecute Bush / Cheney for ordering torture. Unfortunately, Obama wasn’t really a Democrat. He was a Republican pretending to be a Democrat. The country is worse off because Obama was pretending to be something he’s not.

It would be nice, in 2013, if the worst actually comes about, that the Democratic members of the Senate would use the same tactics that the GOP hs used on Obama. Let absolutely no appointments go through. Force out of session appointments, or not even have any “official” ends of sessions, except at the yearly transitions. See how a republican president does without a Secretary of State, or Sectretary of War (yeah, but the pre-1947 name fits so well) or Treasury. No judicial appointments. Block it all.

Now I realize that this would never happen under the Democrats, but it would help reestablish them as a party with the cahones to actually rule.

Obama now has a primary opponent: http://americachangestoday.com/actions.html

Support this guy and maybe O will step down.

“Despite Obama’s protestations that he would be happy to be a one-term president,”

If we consider that in public political speech whatever is said the opposite is true–as appears typical to the point of being axiomatic–then the translation of this into common language is that Obama’s goal is a second term.

Me 2 – from Texas.

Perry is just about the only thing that could force me to consider voting for the big Zero (after swearing not to). But I would only consider it. Perry’s gonna win Texas anyway – unless it is an incredible Obama blowout.

If you think they are the same, you must not be a woman. gay or a minority. Maybe you are a dominionist.

If Obama was even remotely serious about being satisfied as a one term president, it doesn’t say much positive about what he’s willing to leave the American people in the hands of. “OK, I got my fame and fortune, now you guys can live under the regime of El Presidente for Life, Rick Perry”

If Obama really would be satisfied as a one term president, he would shut down the Committee to Re-Elect the President (OK, but RMN’s team had the best name) and announce he wasn’t going to run again, allowing the party a modicum of time to find a viable candidate. But it’s obvious that isn’t going to happen.

Were it not for Vietnam, LBJ would be remembered bu liberals with the same affection as FDR. He coulda been a truly great president.

You expected Obama to investigate Cheney and Bush? Hahaha and a LOL!!
I know as well as anyone on this board that the two of them, Rumsfeld, Rice, Yoo, et al, all belong at the ICC in The Hague in shackles to answer for their war crimes.
However, how long do you think Obama, with his beautiful wife and daughters, would have his family if he were to have done that?
No one, I mean no one, in government messes with the national security state. Obama knows what happened to JFK. You don’t mess with these people.

I am an independent and as mad as I am at Obama for not kicking Republican A$$ There isn’t a Republican on Earth that I would vote for.

This is going to be the election for someone outside of the two parties to jump in and say “try me”. I have decided that I am going to take the Firedog Lake position. Whatever Jane says to do is what I am going to do. She is on top of everything, knows what is happening inside Washington and cares about people. I think we should follow her lead.

Our only shot is a Ghandi/MLK style peaceful revolution.

Trying to take the most powerful military/security state in the world head on is terminally stupid and cannot succeed. But a non-violent (on our part – the cops will go berserk) revolution can and will work.

When we get fed up enough.

Thanks, Mauimom!
You said it better and more clearly than I could have!

Any such blame depends on two assumptions. The first is that there is a significant difference in the practical outcomes generated by either party. The second is that an informed, independent citizenry using an open, honset electoral system determine who is the President, who in turn represents the will of those people, ideally in the interests of producing the greatest public good.

The court has been conservative since Nixon’s day – with that carrot of a liberal court always just out of our reach. Every appointment has been more conservative than the judge they replaced. Obama has already had two chances to change that pattern.

Bush v Gore ended the fiction that our votes mean anything.

No one, I mean no one, in government messes with the national security state. Obama knows what happened to JFK. You don’t mess with these people.

Ain’t that the truth? OTOH, I kinda-sorta don’t blame O totally for not going after the Bush Crime Syndicate. No doubt O got the “talk,” and he listened real good. That said, there are other things that O COULD have done but chose not to do.

So, I might be able to overlook some “failings” on the part of Obama, but a 100% FAIL rate is unacceptable.

I will be voting Third Party of some sort. I will certainly NEVER vote for a Teahadist DOLT like Rick Perry, but I will also NEVER vote for Barack Hussein Obama again… for anything.

“I’m only 28 years old and I honestly could care less about our system of government nor acknowledge its legitimacy / jurisdiction over me.”

Indeed.

“You hate America, don’t you?” she said.
“That would be as silly as loving it,” I said. “It’s impossible for me to get emotional about it, because real estate doesn’t interest me. It’s no doubt a great flaw in my personality, but I can’t think in terms of boundaries. Those imaginary lines are as unreal to me as elves and pixies. I can’t believe that they mark the end or the beginning of anything of real concern to the human soul. Virtues and vices, pleasures and pains cross boundaries at will.” –”Mother Night,” Kurt Vonnegut

Bush v Gore ended the fiction that our votes mean anything.

Bingo! And the ascedency of W Dumber Bush to the “throne” was not the “fault” of Ralph Nader. Love or hate Nader, I don’t care. The fix was in, and the MSM just used Nader to pit progressives against one another… and quite successfully, too, I might add… witnessing a certain snarky blog post yesterday. Get over it, folks. Blame Diebold and other FL voting rights infringements, for pete’s sake.

Thank you for that bit of sense, truly.

Bush/Cheney did exactly that. Guess what? Obama didn’t fire – or prosecute any of ‘em.

Were I president, on day one or two in office the number of “loyal Bushies” assigned to the coldest part of Alaska would be large enough to build them a special town.

“This is going to be the election for someone outside of the two parties to jump in and say “try me”.

If that’s the case it certainly won’t be a progressive. More likely it will be from the Tea Party Right, especially if Romney is the GOP candidate

you give these bozoz too much credit. It was only in 2001 that 19 terroists were taking flying lessons in Florida. In 2007 they finally caught a guy who escaped from prison in 1979! He was living in Tampa working as a cook in a sports bar. He had been arrested twice in the 1990s for driving without a license and possession of pot. They still didn’t put two and two together!

“The country is worse off because Obama was pretending to be something he’s not.”

That’s the brilliance and intended consequences of the Good Cop con. The wolf in sheep’s clothing can often accomplish a level of violence that would not otherwise be possible.

A 100% fail rate? I hardly think so. Without an lot of typing on my part, you might want to go here -
http://www.politicususa.com/en/maddow-obama-agenda

100% fail is an awful lot of hyperbole. A good portion of the Dems in the Senate and the House are Blue Dogs, who are essentially GOP lite, and McConnell has threatned a filibuster time after time. With those kind of obstructions, I’m somewhat surprised that Obama has accomplished what he has. Not that I’m not satisfied, until the other day, with his overall nice/nice demeanor to the GOP.

Did you see that worthless Republican Mary Landrieu standing next to Harry Ried today trying to backpeddle on the Jobs plan. Her and Ben Nelson are out in front bashing the plan and she said that no way will taking subsidies from the oil companies fly and Ried is up there defending her. Each week get worse in Washington.

Nope. Not going to happen. And I suspect he will get a second term, but we’ll see.

until the progressive party comes to my congressional district with a viable candidate to challenge the GOP incumbant, I will vote for the lesser of two evils (Spelled O-B-A-M-A). I could never live with myself if I didn’t and Perry were elected president. Until they take money out of politics or we amend the constitution to have a palimentary system, we have no choice but to vote for the lesser evil. Obama may have said he wanted to cut SS, MM/MM but by the time the election is held, you know how much he he allowed to be cut from benefits for those programs? ZERO! How many cuts would Dick Perry have allowed? The system sucks but you can;t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I suspect that part of CC’s point was that it may be better to have a recognizable criminal so you have a better idea of who you are dealing with, especially after he and many others were dealt a double dose of crime by Obama: the crime itself and secondarily the crime of being defrauded. Perhaps CC should have known better. But if someone runs a con, that additional crime should get the extra recognition it warrants.

Who does he think he’s foolin’ with a “big jobs plan” that would – if enacted in it’s entirety knock maybe 1% off a 9. something unemployment rate?

99% of Democrats – at least – for starters.

And 8% unemployment is no picnic in election season. This absolutely proves that the first stimulus was inadequate, not because of miscalculation, but Obama wanted it that way!

HE won’t even propose an adequate plan when he knows it has no chance.

Agreed. Obama has exacerbated everything, not to mention personally resurrecting and empowering the Republican Party.

It seems clear to me that most of the folks that visit this site regularly are either going to vote 3rd party, write in a candidate, or abstain from voting altogether in 2012. While I can’t blame any of you and I am certainly fed up with our two-party system and deeply disappointed in Obama’s performance and in particular, the utter contempt his administration has shown for the progressive left, I am also keenly aware of what will happen to our democracy if Perry takes the White House and the teabaggers gain majorities in both houses. It won’t be 4 or 8 “lost” years like we had under Bush–it will be the end of what is left of our democracy. Perhaps this is where we’re headed regardless of who gets elected, but–and call me a fool, or naive–I still hold out some hope that our future will be better with Dems in office than if we give the truly crazy tea party-dominated GOP full run of our government. It is impossible not to take for granted many of the freedoms we still enjoy as Americans. If we turn over our government to the tea party, those freedoms will be gone in a hurry. Look how quickly the tea party governors have been able to move in WI, Michigan, Ohio and Florida. By abstaining, or voting for a candidate who has no chance whatsoever of winning, you are essentially voting for our destruction. There won’t be any coming back from 4 or 8 years of tea party rule. The Dems may be in the pockets of corporate America, but they are not socially radical like today’s GOP and won’t be moving immediately to, for example, eliminate the seventeenth amendment, the EPA, or the Department of Education. The hold that corporate America has on our country may not diminish under 4 more years of Obama and Dem majorities in Congress, but you can be quite sure that our rights and the country that we know today will diminish mightily under 4 or more years of tea party rule. With respect, I beg all of you to consider this carefully before November 2012

I think Michael Bloomburg fit your critria. He is also a big environmentalist and could command the Green Party ticket by just asking. With the GP ballot access and his billions the election would be a cakewalk.

NAFTA, bank dereg, and welfare “reform” proved that. Not to mention Hillary’s abortion of a health care plan.

Good statement.

If Obama wins in ’12, in 2016 we get a nutcase Republican in all probability (Obama’s half measures and austerity ain’t gonna fix anything) – who Obama is now building an efficient police state apparatus to accommodate.If he loses, there is a chance the Dems learn a lesson.

Three choices: A)Obama is either the dumbest MF in history for continuing to expect reason and compromise from the Rs in the face of the evidence

B) Repeat (A), or

C) Actually a Republican

Which would you be proud to vote for?

Excellent points. Couldn’t have said it any better, but I tend to think it will fall on deaf ears here. Many of us who lived through the 60s as teens or young adults realize we live in a racket society that changes only around the edges, and even at that, it’s incremental. Many of the younger voters who voted for Obama with idealistic enthusiasm are among the most disenchanted. In voting for him I never expected any radical change (which, imo, is the type of change we need), but at least I thought we were headed away from an 8 year nightmare.
Someone mentioned earlier about things never changing until money is out of politics. As long as pols control the votes on any public financing bill this isn’t going to happen. Evolutional change is all one can expect. Although a Perry presidency with a GOP House and Senate can do wonders for waking many people up from their self-induced stupor. By voting some Third Party that’s exactly what we will end up with. No matter how screwed things are now with weak-willed Dems, they could get much, much worse.

It is early enough for us all to register Republican before the Republican caucuses begin and help get the least bad candidate we can and at least have some hedge against the craziest Republican field I have ever seen. I have done just that. I will switch back to Democrat if it becomes necessary. Heck if we all did this in Republican leaning states it would mess up their gerrymandering process as well.

I am scared of a Bachman or Perry or Palin presidency. Very scary indeed. Between black box voting and a disenchanted electorate I would not count out any crazy person.

I’m among those who actually believe President Obama is going to win re-election in 2012 with a better margin and electoral-vote count than how he performed in 2008. It doesn’t say anything about the issue of quality in leadership. One telltale sign is the fielding from opposition party. If 2012 is for the Republicans, we should be seeing a supposedly credible lineup that includes Jeb Bush — and others supposedly as electable as the former Governor of Florida — big time in the race. So, I guess it’s just a whole bunch of bullshit storyline and polling for next year. If it turns out Obama does get unseated, perhaps that Republican challenger will likewise get unseated by his/her Democratic opponent in 2016. (A period in which the electorate — still backing the parties with at least 95% combined votes — says fuck off to Rs and Ds alike.)

Your future. This is what you guys want? Seriously?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EL5Atp_vF0&feature=player_embedded

Same old scare tactic, different election.

There is no fucking way I am going to vote for the person who has sold out at EVERY turn. NO. FUCKING. WAY.

Your submission to that very strategy is what keeps the whole perverted system working to our collective disadvantage.

A scant three years ago, the democrats had a majority in both houses and the presidency. TODAY we are talking about dismantling social security and medicare and not even whispering anything real about stopping the military rape of the treasury. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PROTECT YOU FROM JACK SHIT.

Tell them to go to hell. That is the only message that will do anything to reverse this insane system.

“There won’t be any coming back from 4 or 8 years of tea party rule.”

Why do you think this potential declensionist trajectory is irreversible?

What a den of negativity and this is the left? I though this where I would find some happy thoughts! Excuse me, I have to write a note and find my rope and rickety chair I got around here some place!

And there’s quite a level of fear regarding people whose main function is to look good on TV.

Sorry we’re all out of hope, some guy came around and stole it all last election.

So we let disappointment in Obama turn us into masochists, is that it?

It’s not a disappointment, it’s a realization that he is not what he paints himself to be.

Which side is he on?

It ain’t ours, and the sooner you realize it and reject him for it, the better off we’ll be.

Chill out and stay away from sharp objects. Short of a total economic meltdown of 1929 proportions, or worse, there will be nothing that’s going to happen to change what you call “this insane syatem.” We are an imperfect species who seem to be “crapping in our own hat” right now.

Was the poll taken before or after DADT?

And, President Obama’s new, “combative” attitude?

The base should now be “fired up, ready to go!”.

$1 billion for the upcoming campaign should be no problem.

Small contributions, of course.

Thanks for the advice. When I walk into the phony voting booth and write in Single Payer, I’ll be totally chill. If I was at the Wall Street occupation, where I should be, I’d be even more chill, especially if the NYPD was cracking me on the head. If I was in Wisconsin, I’d probably be chill too. When the supercongress (talk about insane) starts to deconstruct medicare and social security, I’m going to be extra chill, cold even. Ice cold.

Just face it. The country is in big doo doo. I don’t know who these so called expert advisors that President Obama has around him but they forgot the golden rule. Don’t forget the one who brought you to the dance. This is not so much about the economy as it is about a sense of incompetence by the President. For over two years this guy has tried to appease the Repubs and Teabaggers and they constantly ate his lunch. Now he wants to come back to the very people who elected him and we are pissed off. Unfortunately if we don’t support him we will be left with a Rick Perry or Mitt Romney. If we do support hi, we we feel like a battered spouse who took back our abusive husband. Either way we lose, it just a matter of how bad we want to put up with the next four plus years.

Just out of curiosity, can anyone name the piece of progressive legislation placed on Obama’s desk that he vetoed and while you are at my little quiz, name the piece of progressive legislation that was signed by a Republican?

We have had thirty years of inching, sometimes leaping to the right and you all seem to want that changed in two? Give Obama a Progressive majority in the Senate, like we had for two years in the House, in both the Senate and the House, together they will pass the legislation that is near and dear to our liberal hearts and Obama will sign it! “Politics is the art of possible.” Always will be!

Hey I know, let’s play your game. Let’s start with appointments. I’ll go first:
Larry Summers

He is gone.

We can all pick apart everything in hindsight. But, speaking of appointments, how many of his appointments are still stalled in the Senate or simply gave up or quit because they could not get a hearing?

Just because he took that particular knife out of our backs, doesn’t mean the wound isn’t still bleeding.

The better off we’ll be? By turning over the government to one of those jokers from the rubber room? Sorry, I can’t go there with you. Where is the upside there, cause I’m not seeing one. You guys have all bought in to the notion that with a Bagger in the WH, and possibly a two house majority, this will sufficiently rattle our cages such that we will finally revolt. Nifty word, “revolt”. That’s a large wager. Actually, it sounds like magical thinking, to me. Don’t do this. Why such defeatism? Who does that serve? This doesn’t square with the sense of what it means to be on the left, not in any way I know. This sounds instead like people whose vanity incorrectly assures them that they are too pure for this world. Yes, I voted for him but I don’t feel at all betrayed. I never imagined I was voting for some progressive champion. Just because he was conversant with Saul Alinsky, never did I for a moment think I was voting for some radical firebrand. Certainly, such a person would never have made it to the WH. Obama was an untried, inexperienced pol who, largely due to the devastation of a global financial crisis, got himself elected President. Who ascended to an office that was and is, frankly too large for him. You give the election to a Bagger and a two chamber majority, and the calamity that will follow will have you begging for Obama. Don’t do this.

Please excuse Tom Vilsak for me.

If the voting booth is “phony” to you, then what do you have left , the barricades? You’ll get steamrolled. As of yet, this isn’t Paris of the 1780s. If we reach that point I hope I’m not around to see it.

Please stop, you’re making too much sense.

Boy, the new folks from HBGary are here in force today, peddling the old “it’ll be the end of the world if Zero isn’t re-elected crap”.

Ignore them.

You’ll GET steamrolled?! LOL

Holy shit. You guys are really wearing blinders aren’t you?

“Give Obama a Progressive majority in the Senate, like we had for two years in the House, in both the Senate and the House, together they will pass the legislation that is near and dear to our liberal hearts and Obama will sign it!”

Change is just around the corner folks! LOL

Lucky it’s “hump day”. All downhill from here.

BTW, if you get stabbed, it’s better to leave the knife IN. It helps control the bleeding. Everybody know that.

You too, speaking sense? Thank you.

Step right up.

In discussions with about 20-25 of my associates down here in Houston, who were Obama supporters, about 1/3 have said, and I believe them, they will sit the election out. They won’t vote for Obama again and they WILL NEVER vote for a 21st century republican. Some, think Romney “means well” and MIGHT be tolerable. Some would vote against Perry if he gets the nomination and just hope that Obama will do better the next time. But if the democrats lose the senate and the republicans hold the house, all Ohbama can do is hope his vetoes hold up and that they have some really nice shows at the “Kennedy Center Honors” next four years.

Hell, this isn’t even Paris of 1968. Like I said, magical thinking.

No blinders here, but some of us probably have lived longer and seen more than you. I know that the ballot box is pretty much all we have, and now even that is tainted what with GOP voter supression laws and GOP tilted software in electronic voting. I’m not naive. I realize that we are pretty much screwed and headed downhill, but at least with a Dem in the WH the landing will take longer and the blow will be cushioned. Along the way, hell, maybe even SS and Medicare will be spared, whereas under GOP long term control it will be decimated.

Ha! Paris 68 was literally child’s play compared to Madame Guillotine.
You waiting for DC 2017? Steamrolled, smashed like a bug, whatever, use any term you want. The Right Wing has most of the guns.

Well, I mentioned 1968 only because somehow I think our compadre Hotdog as visions of Guy Debord urging on the insurrection against The Spectacle, or something.

Sorry, I actually thought I was responding to one of hotdog’s posts. He seems to be itching for the day that we have carnage in the streets. What with the supine population we have that won’t happen, but what’s happening with SB 5 in Ohio is beautiful to see. Lets see how the GOP tampers with that recall vote in about 6 weeks.

Seems to me that some of your associates don’t have a clue about who is really screwing them. Maybe you can convince them to “dummy up” in the next year. Just a bit less idealism and more pragmatism.

He knows he has to secure his base now or lose. The Indies hate his guts. I don’t like the man either and right now I’m planning on voting Green or something else. Meaningless promises he knows he can never deliver on are worthless. He can do things right now as Pres. to help many Americans, but he won’t , so without action he’s toast. His alienating and dissing his own base could have very well cost him a 2nd term.

And do you think President Obama’s nominees would be much better? Come on.

Voting Green or something else?

If that makes it so you can live with your conscience go ahead. Just don’t moan when things don’t go according to your plan, because you will have put yourself out of the equation. It’s this thinking that gave us Bush in 2000.

As much as I admire Jane, I think you should make up your OWN mind. Allowing others to do our thinking for us is the main reason we’re in the miserable situation we’re in right now.

None of you are particularly troubled about the prospect of Justices Ginsberg and Breyer moving on? Not concerned at all, are you, with President Perry, say, filling those spots? Stand up and testify, my brothers and sisters, for that 7-2 split. Show your love!

The POTB will make sure that corporate friendly justices are seated regardless of who is president.

So that that leaves the social issues to worry about. And the Dems would certainly fight tooth and nail against the worst that “President Perry” could dredge up, right?

Voting Green or something else?

If that makes it so you can live with your conscience go ahead. Just don’t moan when things don’t go according to your plan, because you will have put yourself out of the equation. It’s this thinking that gave us Bush in 2000.

It’s your kind kind of thinking that resulted in the Gore/Lieberman ticket that gave us Bush in 2000.

If you can live with that on your conscience, go ahead. I’ll spare you the platitudes about moaning.

if the democrats lose the senate and the republicans hold the house, all Ohbama can do is hope his vetoes hold up

What makes you think he’d veto anything from a Republican Congress? That wouldn’t be very bi-partisany. He’d sign it and claim it was “an expression of the people’s will”.

I do, yes. Emphatically. Is there a negative argument against Kagan and Sotomayor? I haven’t seen one. Reports I’ve read state that these two have already had an impact on the court, in terms of their respective approaches. Sotomayor is a very astute questioner, and Kagan, amongst her colleagues, often explicates the liberal viewpoint. So, no, I don’t have a problem here.

I have no idea where I came up with that. What was I thinking???
Two Dos Equis for lunch. I gotta stop doin’ that.

Joe L is slime, but all Gore did wrong is not use Bill Clinton more in going out to stump for him. Gore was way better than Bush, both as a candidate and as a man, so my conscience is quite clear. Don’t tell me that there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference, because we are living with the results.

Upwards, someone dropped a Vonnegut quote. Here’s another, for all of you itching for a massacre next year:

“Everything is supposed to be very quiet after a massacre, and it always is, except for the birds. And what do the birds say? All there is to say about a massacre, things like ‘Poo-tee-weet?’”

“The public is extremely disappointed with Obama, presumably because he hasn’t turned around the economy,…”

As a member of that public, I won’t vote for the SOB because he is governing as a rightwing Republican, caving to collectively the worst human beings to ever hold political office in the US.

I agree. Gore’s biggest mistake, aside from “the kiss”, was distancing himself from Clinton.

You could be right. Unfortunately, I think they’re probably much like the man who appointed them–without real principles, basically thinking of what’s best for them and theirs. I’ve recently realized that 2012 could be my last presidential election. After having reluctantly voted for the lesser evil for many more years than I care to remember, I’ve decided I’m going to, as the hackneyed old phrase has it, vote my conscience.

Apparently the other voters in your state are blind or stupid or both.

Joe L is slime, but all Gore did wrong is not use Bill Clinton more in going out to stump for him. Gore was way better than Bush, both as a candidate and as a man, so my conscience is quite clear. Don’t tell me that there wasn’t a dime’s worth of difference, because we are living with the results.

So slime and a neo-lib would have been OK with you?

Gore didn’t use Clinton because he concluded it would hurt his re-election chances. And maybe your imaginary Gore would have been way better than Bush, but since he didn’t serve, you have nothing to compare other than your wishful thinking. And your imaginary thinking ain’t even worth that dime you are talking about.

And in the here and now, if Gore was so “way better”, I reckon he’d be speaking out against the current travesty that is Obama and the Dem Party.

The results we are living with came about because Bush had enough Dem support to allow him to do everything he did.

Wonder where Obama would be today in the polls if he actually even tried to do all the things he said he would do when he was running?

What kills me was he never even tried, he just sucked punched most of America and then governed like he was Bush’s third term.

Who would be stupid enough to vote for that AGAIN?

John Boehner’s secretary:

“Mr. Speaker, President Johnson’s on the phone.”

(Scrambling, palpitations, shitting and gitting, as they say in the Cackalack….)

“(Ahem) Mr. President! Good of you to call. Do you have any shoes you need shined?”

“What kills me…is he never tried…”

It’s killing the democratic party and any chance of a progressive agenda, as we speak.

“…all Obama can do is hope is vetos hold up.”

What vetos?

And, I guess some of us didn’t notice that with the country unspinnably in a recession; with 9% unemployment (It’s probably closer to 15%…) and with the republicans having locks on the fiduciary board, Barack Obama’s numbers are at their lowest ever.

Would someone like to talk about why they think he’s going to be around to deal with the republicans after 2012?

Uhhh…whoever fills the SCOTUS spots, it’s not going to be someone who thinks that SS is a Ponzi scheme, or who thinks that a zillion years of fossil record is a communist plot.

For the republican party to nominate Rick Perry would be political suicide. For them to go with one of the bible zombies is the only thing that can give Barack Obama a second term; and THAT is the most dangerous thing about Perry and the other snaketwirlers.

“Gore was way better than Bush…”

Gore’s cardinal sin was expressing that openly through his words and his disrespectful gestures and articulations during the debates. Saying that your opponent is beneath simple respect is a lousy “vote for me” argument. Gore appeared arrogant and disrespectful. Those are not presidential qualities voters will choose.

Uhhh…whoever fills the SCOTUS spots, it’s not going to be someone who thinks that SS is a Ponzi scheme, or who thinks that a zillion years of fossil record is a communist plot.

For the republican party to nominate Rick Perry would be political suicide. For them to go with one of the bible zombies is the only thing that can give Barack Obama a second term; and THAT is the most dangerous thing about Perry and the other snaketwirlers.

I was responding to another poster who was practicing LOTE by fear-mongering about “President Perry” and his scotus picks.

For what it is worth, if Perry were to somehow wrangle the nomination, I bet his wackier positions immediately race toward whatever is deemed mainstream by his handlers.

The one good thing I do see about someone like Perry becoming president is that the Dems will be more likely to at least posture once again about traditional liberal values.

The only delusion here is thinking Obama is different from any of the R candidates. Obama has fought for Republican positions virtually every time, even when he had a massive D majority.

“Wonder where Obama would be today in the polls if he actually even tried to do all the things he said he would do when he was running?

What kills me was he never even tried, he just sucked punched most of America and then governed like he was Bush’s third term.

Who would be stupid enough to vote for that AGAIN?”

This!

My vote is meaningless (Texas). Might as well live in the old USSR. How is Florida going to vote?

Obama supporters are certainly in a difficult situation. An uncomfortable number of former Obama supporters are announcing that they will not be supporting him in the upcoming election; they’ll either sit the election out, vote third party, or write in a candidate. Some are even planning a spite vote for the Republican candidate!

There seem to be a few common responses to this conundrum. One response is “Shut the fuck up, you liberal retard, you’ll vote for Obama and like it.” For some inexplicable reason, however, a large percentage take offense at that friendly advice.

Another ploy is the classic “Scare the shit out of them” technique. Unfortunately, that too seems to be losing its effectiveness. Even turning off the lights, holding a flashlight pointing upward under the chin, and making ghost sounds while moaning “President PALIN! President PERRY!” elicits panicked “lesser-of-two-evils” reactions from less than 10% of respondents.

There was some hope that the popular “Right-wing Supreme Coooourt!” variant of the Scare technique would prove more effective, but a distressingly large number of respondents are resistant to that approach as well.

This leaves only the time-honored “Fuck you, the country is going to hell and it’s all your fault you liberal RETARD!” ploy. Alas, the recipients of such comments rarely take them in the spirit of gentle good fellowship in which they are offered, and seem less likely to vote for our Dear Leader than ever.

It certainly is a pickle!

Incri-mental-ism is the only way to get there! (neocon fairytale land, that is) We’ve come so far already in only three years!

Hey you stupid fucking retards, if you don’t vote for the great presididn’t who led us down this path to HCA, (the republican health-couldn’t-give-a-shit-less act), and signed you and your kids up for trillions in debt toward the banksters and an insatiable military, and loves the nuke industry and wants to give even more to the oil industry while he’s bombing people in pursuit of control over their resources, you might end up with a MONSTER in the White House. Git over yourselves you moronic fucks and vote for him. Cant’ you see he cares about you 14 months out from the next election?

GO DEMS!/s

Both tongue-in-cheek and true. I like that.

A bit harsher, but true and entertaining as well.

I live in Washington state and Team Obama needs to phear my vote. It is against my religion to vote for a Republican or Republican Lite.

Whoops! I inadvertently left out the most promising technique of all:

“Look! Obama is making a speech about all the progressive things he wishes he could do, if only he really wanted to and didn’t prefer pleasing his Wall Street owners! Isn’t he the dishiest? Isn’t he cute? You should vote for him. You know, if you don’t, you’re a racist. Or a Republican.”

Now if that doesn’t get them, what will?

Wrong! The only thing that puts you “out of the equation” is not voting at all. Voting your conscience is definitely worthwhile. Why should we be bound by your rule that only vote for two parties count? That’s what’s gotten us into this mess.

I won’t be voting D or R, but I will be voting. And I won’t feel one bit that I’m at fault if an R wins the election. That would only be my fault if I had an opinion against having an R in office and didn’t vote at all.

Quasit, could make for a fun diary, if you have the time.

You guys call yourselves progressive? A better acronym would be PPO-PI (Perennially Pissed Off – Perennially Indignant.) Your boy failed deliver your goods to you? Well, slap my face, what is this world coming to! OK, misery does love company but this continuous woe is me circle jerk is just a psychological crutch. Snap out of it! Call -em like you really see -em. You hate the majority of Americans, the gullible, ignorant, mouth-breathers they are, while being absolute in your desire to save them from themselves. Hell, I bet there are not 50 of the hicks that can spell perspicacity. It is these morons (via their collective body politic) that are keeping you, the real chosen ones, from creating a true citizens paradise where we can all march forward into broad, sunlit uplands. Why not try convincing them-there red-staters that you are 75 times smarter than they are and what they are doing to politically threaten Congress, the Presidency, and all elected officials everywhere is against their own best interests? How dare they use their potential vote in such a crass display of power! Show them your M.A. diploma or your collection of books that you have read, that will do the trick. What, you do not think they will see it your way? It figures. Rubes, all of them. Besides, most of them already have B.O. Hey, I have an idea. How about literacy tests at the polls! Then you are certain to win, hands down, no contest. Anyone who cannot give a definition of post-modernism or does not listen to NPR three times a week will not be allowed to vote. Attendance at any NASCAR event within the past 5 years will be an automatic disqualification.

Oh, wait. If I remember correctly, some people tried something similar to literacy tests at the polls once upon a time and it was eventually outlawed, I think. (How would you handle hipsters, anyway?) Well heck, on second thought just start a blog and you can all talk ourselves into a frenzy believing you are the most politically astute people the world has ever seen! Yeah! Conspiracy everywhere! Corporations! Wealthy classes (with some specific exceptions, of course.) PTB! Oil companies! Profit motive! Private Property! Texans! Hell yeah! No black helicopters, though. Those are for simpletons.

Yes, you guessed it. Politically speaking, I am a little to right of Attila the Hun. I have been following this blog for a few months to get a perspective on the political concept of progressive vs liberal. I got it alright. Perennial indignation (over the democratic rule-of-majority) substituting for a personal political philosophy. So, let the flaming being, if it will make you feel better. However, I do recommend that you ask your physician for a big script of something. Obamacare should cover the cost. Wait minute! Big Pharma! Forget it.

By the way, what ARE you all going to do about hipsters who claim to be progressives? I have met some.

“Thugs”?

That is the perfect strategy.

There’s a lesson to be learned from 1968. McGovern was nominated when Democrats learned that they shouldn’t ignore their left wing. Unfortunately, he was a nice guy who was ill-prepared to fight an outright crook.

But I don’t think that applies to 2016 if Obama loses. Republicans will be driven from government yet again just as they were in 2008 because NONE of their ideas ever make our country a better place to live. And Democrats will learn, yet again, that they need progressives, and they’d better keep us happy. We’ll get a nominee who will, for once, make a decent president and who won’t resurrect the Republican Party from the dead as Obama did in 2009.

But Obama has to lose in order to make that happen. Progressives must send a strong message to the neo-liberals that we’re not going to stand for their bullshit anymore. Although they are not worse, they certainly are not better than Republicans for the long-term well-being of our country. Both are doing extensive damage to America.

Thanks, Missouri Mule, but my history with political diaries is sketchy at best. For example, over on Kos in 2005 I made a post to the effect that most online political “action” was basically circle-jerking, so much so that if it didn’t exist, the Powers That Be would have created it – because all it is is a way to harmlessly drain off excess outrage.

Kossaks took offense at this, and apart from lots of abuse, they also deliberately “broke” my entry. Which may have been the most effective thing they’ve ever done!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/09/02/144449/-Last-Post

Apart from that, I have the bad habit of making pessimistic predictions that come true. This is NEVER a popular approach (see Cassandra). So I set up a grave for my political writing, and now I only do it when I can’t help myself. But I try to do it in the dark, in private.

http://www.runequest.org/quasit.htm

Brilliant!

“Republicans will be driven from government yet again just as they were in 2008…”

And if you’re wrong?