Perhaps the most important part of last night’s Republican primary debate was the exchange between Rick Perry and Mitt Romney on the issue of Social Security. Perry stuck by his claim that Social Security is a ponzi scheme, and Romney responded with a strong electability argument against Perry: “Our nominee has to be someone who isn’t committed to abolishing Social Security.”
It was clearly an effort by Romney to make the case to Republican primary voters that he could beat Obama, whereas Perry would have some huge liabilities in the general election. Expect to hear this same basic argument repeated consistently by the Romney campaign throughout the primary. It is a message that Romney really needs the primary voters to hear.
Despite the fact that most major polls show Romney doing better in head-to-head match up against Obama, the Republican base currently doesn’t believe Perry is a general election liability. In fact the GOP base right now sees Perry as slightly more electable than Romney. In a recent ABC News/Washington Post poll among Republican and Republican-leaning independents, 30 percent said Perry stands the best chance of beating Obama, while only 20 percent said Romney does.
Romney doesn’t really inspire the GOP base, but the GOP base is enthusiastic about wanting Obama gone. Romney’s biggest potential advantage in the primary are the national polls which show that if the 2012 election is close, he would be the GOP’s best (and possibly only) hope of beating Obama. But this is only a political advantage for Romney if he can make the primary voters believe it, and so far they don’t. That is why Romney’s campaign is going to need to hammer in the electability message every chance they get.



67 Comments
What about Ron Paul? He won the MSNBC poll by a 3 to1 margin with Romney and yet you don’t even mention him.
lol..why no mention of ron paul?
i dont support any republican but if the media was not full of shit and gave paul his due not only would he be the republican nominee but he might even beat obama.
remember this….the economy a year from now will be much much worse than it is today///something out of the ordinary must occur for obama to be re-elected because otherwise ANY republican will beat him.
some say count on voter fraud to see obama reelected..others say look for a false flag to rally the support.
who knows….but obama can not win re-election without some fraud.
period.
Well, WE could be the Republican base, at least for a day or so…
agreed. Jon why are you following MSM and only covering perry and romney. I want to se RP clips from last night where he said TSA was sexually abusive. Where he said border fences could be used to keep us in. where he said the Perry passed an executive order forcing 12 year old girls to get vaccines. if you dig deeper on that story you will find kids dies and Perry got big money on company behind the vaccines.
agreed. my money is on a false flag because that distracts the people from the criminals on wall street, if it leads to war his pals get richer, and we will be bombarded by msm about how we need to stand together, be patriotic and fight the good fight.
Problem is the Tea Baggers have no problem tanking an election if it increases their power.
Why worry about what the Republicans need to do or not do? It’s time to worry about organizing a mass movement of the working and middle class that will challenge Obama and the status quo. Analyzing the Republican Party and the teabaggers is a waste of time.
If each new generation is going to be much larger than the last, then every generation should win under a system in which the evermore numerous young support the old through mandatory transfers of income.
What could go wrong?
I don’t give a rat’s ass who wins the 2012 election. They all work for the same fatcats. We’ve already lost the election. Fuck it.
I agree. We should be focusing on obama and the status quo. I don’t understand the purpose of this article.
Actually, I’d just as soon Mittens STFU about electability and let Perry get the nod. Then WE can hammer him on the Ponzi scheme shit.
Agree with you and Bluetoe2. For a second I thought I hit the wrong link and was reading the New Republic blog. By the way, Ron Paul, as usual, made an ass out of himself responding to the questions on drug and food safety in the debate last night.
None of this matters because the Obama White House – via its embrace of Republican priorities like expanded free trade, austerity, Republican health care bills, cutting Social Security and Medicare, and Bush tax cuts to improve the economy – has cleverly neutralized the Republican opposition, and won over independents. Now they like him, and have abandoned the Republican Party. Just ask David Axelrod. The rest of us fucking retards have just been wearing dunce caps all this time, the political whiz kids have been proven right. Just look at the great political situation they’re in.
I watched the last half of the Republican debate last night (just out of curiosity) and it seems to me that Obama is going to have trouble making people scared of Mitt Romney. People are going to be scared of the Mitt Romney bogeyman who’ll cut Social Security and Medicare, after Obama champions cutting Social Security and Medicare and raising the Medicare age? Good luck with that.
Well, whatever. These Democratic idiots have tied their own noose (metaphorically) these past 3 years, whistling as the economy burned, and are about to reap the consequences.
I’ll probably watch Obama tonight just out of curiosity to see his jobs schtick. Not because it could possibly work – most of it is just an extension of the current shitty status quo and tax cuts – but to see if he actually goes after the Republicans (3 years too late) or does his standard bipartisan shit. Even if he does go after the Republicans, it won’t be anything more than campaign theatre at this point, though.
Seems to me it’s more dangerous to re-elect Obama if you don’t want SS and Medicare cut. Under Obama, they’re on the chopping block. Under Republican Presidents, they always try and fail.
If the Rs had an ounce of sense they would nominate John Huntsman. He’s the only one who is not a loon and, bless him, he believes in evolution! They will not nominate him but I hope he runs for something else later.
Perry’s negatives are so ugly, so numerous and so exploitable that I think even a President as crippled as Obama would be able to defeat him. With Romney or Huntsman it’s a slam dunk win for the R’s. With Paul, I would vote for him over Obama because at least he stands for a handful of issues that I support, something I can’t say for O. I think in the general election it would be a toss-up but one thing Paul has in his favor is a religious devotion among his followers. They would work very hard for him.
YES! and that is EXACTLY what we should be willing to do – and take credit/blame for it proudly.
alan….let me look in that. Must be something wrong with the model.
Paul won’t be the nominee. He’s too much of a nut case even for the Rs, I think. This is a man who apparently doesn’t believe in any form of gov’t at all. It’s you’re on your own as far as flying, food safety, etc. I really don’t want to go out and repair the freeways in my spare time.
No, no, no. We do not want Perry to get the nomination. Anything could happen after that. We must flush this turd now.
You and me agree on that. I think he shoulda got in earlier to try to get some name recognition. But, of course, Romney was already there and Huntsman is a Mormon too and he worked for Obama. This may be another case where the best candidate does not get the nomination. Happens ALL the time here.
I think Perry is far more dangerous than Willard. How about Christie?
Once again, you be correct. But, if I may, Paul believes in government, but only STATE government. He believes that “all rights not specifically given to the federal government IN THE CONSTITUTION are reserved for the states.”
WTF
RP is right about the:
wars
the Fed
MIC
the tsa
FDA for the record all food outbreaks have come from factory farms but the FDA is hell bent on passing laws/regs that will put small farmers out of business. head of FDA appt by Obama, a former exec at monsanto
Drugs – not sure i know the answer and the war on drugs is costing billions and has not stopped the problem it is out of control and teh violence in mexico is getting worse.
I am not for RP but compared to the other puppets he at least tries to speak some truth.
Someone suggested yesterday that the perfect R ticket is Christie/Newt. They were joking but it kept me laughing all day.
Ron Paul?? As someone said, I don’t want to go out and fix the freeway. the guys a nut.
The reason that the “ponzi scheme” meme resonates is that very few people under the age of 40 believe that Social Security will be around when they retire. So, perhaps Democrats might want to address that fear by not aligning with Republicans on “fixing” the system.
Paul is right about a LOT of things. He’s just not a really electable candidate not being a mainstream, died in the wool republican. He comes off as a bit of a kook.
Fact is, Perry likel;y lost a lot of 55+ voters last night who were considering him. My brother-in-law is a Perry supporter. He was at my house last night watching the debate. He agrees with Perry on creationism but is concerned Perry wants to dismantle SS and Medicare. He uses both.
Perry is trying to walk the razor’s edge and I don’t think it will work well for him. He’s not sophisticated enough to pull it off IMO.
Also, selecting Romney over Perry will require an evidence-based mindset that is missing by design in the Republican base, and this is why Romney will lose the primary. Perry resonates better with their faith-based mindset.
The Republicans will nominate somebody and whoever it is s/he will be our next president. The Democrats have no role to play in the presidential election. Unless or until a credible anti war candidate appears to challenge Obama I will continue supporting Ron Paul in the Republican Primary. A case could be made in my opinion for supporting Huntsman or Romney. So cross over if you want to play. Otherwise sit and watch.
well why if RP is not electable is MSM going out of their way to ignore him. If he is no threat why not cover him. On MSNBC poll from last night RP was the favorite by 20% lead, and the poll chart had his bar only an inch longer than Romney. People complained so they fixed it, but you can bet that was deliberate.
RP may not say everything I like but he says a lot of things that I agree with and none of the other candidates mention it or are all for the same BS
They ignore Paul because he isn’t electable and they know it and besides, the MSM only cover food fights.
He’ll eat your cookies.
The dude looks like he’s likely to have a heart attack.
Really and tell me what super powers do they have to know this???????????????
please they ignore him because he tells the truth and they don’t want that getting out. when they do have him on they focus on some of his position on drugs etc just to show he is a wacko
edit: Huntsman made the case for that last night. He said we needed to be nation building here because we are weak at home now.
They say Paul is not electable but that is a lie. The reason they black out Paul is that Paul wants to dismantle the Empire and the corporate media are the propaganda arm of the Empire.
Romney is toast. Any “front-runner” who gets bumped to a distant second within a week of his opponent’s announcement does not have deep support. Perry may indeed be too controversial, but only time will tell.
Best comment here.
And….Wall St. figured out that it would take a democrat to cut social security and eventually privatize it. I’m sure Wall St. is just drooling at the thought. Can you imagine if mc cain had won and dared to put social security and medicare on the table? The hypocritical democratic party members would be frothing at the mouth. Both parties are corrupt.
Paul is looney and his policies are about 18th century. He is not covered by the MSM for the same reason that Santorum isn’t covered or Newt. They have no chance of even being in the race much longer. I think they should cover it all but I don’t have a vote in that.
Not everyone in the Republican party constituency is a flaming teabagger recessionist, evangelical-dominionist christian, or wants to end social security or medicare. These people have gone over the edge according to David Frum and Chuck Hagel. Also the Mormons and even Paul are taking positions to the left of Obama which will cut in to the Democratic base.
Paul is anti-abortion and anti-gay. Those are the huge deals for me. I am not opposed to gov’t – I’m opposed to BAD gov’t. Paul doesn’t seem to believe in any regulations at all and that’s anarchy just waiting to happen. No minimum wage? – talk about people starving in the streets.
it’s too early to call Romney, Perry or Huntsman toast, maybe Cain, Bachmann, and that idiot Newt.
Because you don’t like him doesn’t make him unelectable. Those are separate issues.
I don’t think Paul will win, but he’ll put the race far to the left and on those crossover issues. Also- anarchy doesn’t mean chaos.
Why play on the republican side? You could miss some good primaries. Tammy Baldwin is one or maybe you like the repubs in Wisconsin too
Being opposed to the minimum wage is so progressive. Huntsman’s tax proposals are soooooooooo progressive. Don’t think these right to work guys are cutting into the union base.
Eh? There’s lots not to love about Ron Paul, I agree, but my speculation as to why the corp-owned fascist media more or less ignores/blacks out Paul every election season is: Paul tells more truth than most other so-called “Republican” candidates, esp about the MIC. As someone stated above, the MSM is the propoganda arm of the MIC (eg, the mega-wealthy), and they want Paul’s facts limited and muffled as much as possible.
I, for one, would very much like to Paul given a real true platform from which to speak bc it’s clear that some segment of the voting public likes and agrees with him – apparantly quite a largish segment from some poll last night. I doubt seriously that Paul could win, but simply by having his voice be heard, some of his better ideas could get out and see the light of day.
I’m all for that. Paul is censored deliberately by the PTB, and I speculate that it’s not bc he’s a “kook” (sh*t – take a gander at Bachmann & Palin, who got/get big fat old microphones to blast out their kooky nonsense)… rather it’s bc he does tell the truth about too many things the MIC doesn’t want heard. JMHO, of course.
I agree with some other commenters, above. I would like to see more well-rounded coverage of the so-called “Republican” primary race, if Firedoglake is choosing to cover it. Why focus on the main candidates that the PTB are pushing to the top of the heap??
I’d like to hear more about what some of the other candidates have to say. In particular: Hunstman & Ron Paul.
They should have a bigger forum for some of their ideas to be heard. I suggest that could at least happen here.
The FDA needs some help. I don’t like not being able to buy raw milk, but Peanut butter killed people a few years ago and the FDA needs to be able to recall that stuff. Also, cockroaches and fly legs are not food.
I didn’t say I agreed with everything they’ve said they stand for, but for every position they take to the left of Obama it sucks energy from his campaign if he doesn’t also go left.
If they get rid of the 15% tax on investment income, does that mean that it will be taxed at regular rates, especially if they flatten the taxrates by getting rid of loop holes?
Bachmann, Gingrich and Santorum have no chance of getting the nomination. Huntsman is the #2 Mormon out of TWO. He MAY be the best candidate but he has zero name recognition and has bveen polling below 3% since day 1. Unless something really big happens, it’s a two man race.
But, let’s remember 2008. Hillary was way ahgead and McCain was pronounced DOA in December 2007. Jimmy Carter came out of nowhere and John Kennedy was a longshot adnd a Catholic to boot. and, let’s not forget Richard E. Nixon. “You won’t have Nixon to kick around anymore.” Yeah, we did. for many years.
Too many hot dogs, not enough inspectors.
Why would a progressive website want to give more coverage to a man that wants to eliminate the minimum wage and another one that want to raise taxes on the poor. Both are anti-reproductive freedom by the way. Find some other candidates.
thats for sure. There was a show on TV about one of the major Pork processors. They hire undocumented laborers use air hoses to blow the brains out of pigs skulls which goes into hot dogs… anyway the mexicans are coming down with encephalitis from it and have no benefits.
I have stopped eating pork.
because Obama didn’t tell us that he would raise the taxes on the poor or destroy social security. He’s running the same programs, and if we do as you would like us to do, we wouldn’t be able to see that there isn’t much of a difference between them.
Just in case you haven’t been paying attention, the DNC will not allow a challenger to Obama. We’re playing with the chips we have, not the chips we wish we had.
Who said we should remove the minimum wage besides Bachmann btw?
But, but, but:
Didn’t Romney support the Ryan plan; “anyone who read my book knows we are on the same page”. ?
As far as I’m concerned, the Ryan plan destroys Social Security. Call it something else
Obama supports the Ryan Budget, in fact Ryan is probably his stalking horse.
Ron Paul
I certainly would voe for a primary challenger to Obama from the left but none of these folks. Every last one is anti-union.
So is Obama. He can’t find his shoes unless he needs votes, shut down OFA support in Wisconsin, and he’s tearing the teachers up.
Never mind the WTF’s. If the FDA were done away with, like Ron Paul wants, there wouldn’t be enough bulldozers in the country to collect the corpses that would have to be picked up from unregulated “free market” corporate pharmaceuticals and unregulated factory farms that he and the rest of the pro-capitalist libertarians worship. We’ve been there already–in the snake oil 19th century that caused the progressives to fight and establish the FDA in the first place. Re the wars, the problems at the Fed, TSA etc etc you can be all for fixing those without drinking the right wing anarchist kool aid that Paul peddles. By the way, the _head_ of FDA is not a former Monsanto lobbyist. You’re thinking of someone else. Look it up. There’s plenty wrong with corporate corruption at FDA, but knifing the agency is idiotic.
Really My afscme organizer friend there is still supporting him. She’s not crazy about him but what’s the alternative? Voting for a write in or a green but not these republicans.
I’m intrigued by Buddy Roemer, who was not even allowed to be on stage. He’s a typical Republican on most issues, but there are two that makes him different. He’s talking a lot about campaign finance reform and he’s talking about fair trade instead of free trade. I hope he gets some traction so these issues get some discussion, even if it is only among Republicans dismissing them.
On the other hand dissatisfied liberals might gravitate to him and he might move left and end up the John Anderson of 2012.
Heh.. down to that are ya?
In your quest for perfection you’re down to.. oh well, who else is there?
Your union fried is willing to take get used and not even kissed but it’s good enough for her….
Unions have destroyed themselves because they refuse to practice solidarity with others. Ironic, no? Some are getting smart.
Which Is More Likely to Rebuild the Labor Movement: Environmental Allies or 6,000 Temp Jobs?
Southern Dragon’s comment
Looks like they have no where to go after their unilateral disarmament. Not my problem.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/08/rick-perry-ron-paul_n_954440.html
Here is a piece at Huffington Post about a clash between Perry and Ron Paul last night. The headline:
“Rick Perry Subjects Ron Paul To A ‘Rick Lazio Moment’”
I have mentioned this on the Kos site and I get all sorts of childish hate male. The media is controlling the whole dynamic so Paul can’t be nominated. Don’t feel bad for him as he goes along with this every four years.
“The media is controlling the whole dynamic so Paul can’t be nominated.”
Correct. When they tell you he can’t win they don’t tell you it’s because they will prevent it. But I don’t feel bad for Paul. I feel bad for the country that the media is manipulating our elections.