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More American side with public sector unions than side with the Republican governors around the country who are trying to take away the union’s collective bargaining rights according to the newest Gallup poll. The poll found 48 percent agree more with the state employee labor unions, while 39 percent agree with the governors.
And young people side overwhelming with the labor unions–by a greater than two-to-one margin.
Why younger Americans so overwhelmingly back the public sector labor unions is an interesting question given that the age group is the least likely to actually be part of a public sector labor union.
Part of it could be that this has obviously become a very partisan issue, and young people tend to support Democrats, but that in itself isn’t a sufficient explanation because the partisan split among young people isn’t that large.
I have a purely personal suspicion as a member in this age group, I suspect my peers don’t buy–or are scared to let themselves believe–this “middle class in decline” argument the Republican governors are using to justify their attacks on unions. I remember one of the governors defending his actions by saying how everyone else in the middle class has slowly been paying more for health care and getting worse retirement packages, so public sector unions should. too. Basically, the argument was the rest of the middle class dream is dying, so the fair thing to do is drag the unions down with everyone else.
As a young person who eventually wants to start a family, I know sky high unemployment in my age group makes it extreme difficult to establish a career that can pay for that. This message of life getting worse and less secure for working people is our destiny is extremely bleak. Instead of being jealous of public sector unions and wanting to tear them down, young people are “jealous,” but desperately want to make sure a quality middle class lifestyle can still be available to some.
I believe there is the potential for a powerful young-progressive-labor alliance in the simple message: The future doesn’t need to get suckier for the middle class.
60 Comments
Damn. I was hoping it might be at least a little ideological and class war-ey. Oh well.
What’s the Matter with
Kansasthe 55 and Older Set?So Republicans have the Older Voters sown up. The Middle Age voters are Independents and we got the kids the ones least likely to go to the polls Great/s.
On the plus side the GOP by killing National HealthCare is making sure that their voters are not long for this world.
One good plague and all those poor women who act as nurses aids in nursing homes and in private homes they can’t afford to take sick days off or afford to be tested at a hospital when they are sick so its only a matter of time.
That and deregulating the food industry really helps cut the number of GOP voters we need numbers of food poisoning deaths under Bill and Bush assuming Bush even bothered to keep accurate numbers.
But still its a race the GOP tries to kill its voters who by their votes seem to want to die.
And the Dems who’s voters are the least likely to vote and well the Obama/Blue Dog Dems keep trying to disappoint them so they never vote again.
Still on Unions, ending the wars, creating jobs we do have a majority of the voters why can’t we get anything passed into law?
Why doesn’t Obama take his appeals to the people? Why doesn’t he get off his ass and join a picket line?
Seems to me there is a powerful potential here to turn a youth-progressive-labor alliance into a labor-progressive-labor alliance.
that’s actually a bad stat and represents how effective the corporatists have been getting us to believe against our own interest
that figure would be closer to 9 to 1 if the facts were made known about what unions have done for us, what has happened since and because they’ve been weakened
we have a serious messaging problem, the word “union” has been turned into a perjurative and we have to get that word back on the high ground
all a union does is give labor the same bargaining power a company has to contend with when they buy their raw material
a car manufacturer doesn’t tell a steel mill what they will pay for a ton of steel, the mill sets the price, the manufacturer can then try to negotiate that price but its’ the provider that sets the price
that’s all a union does, it makes it so the company is bargaining with the provider for a fair price instead of setting the price themselves which will never be as fair as it would be with collective bargaining
Speaking as someone of a certain age, I encourage the younger generations to fight for their rights and to fight for Unions. I’ll just add the caution that, back in the day Boomers looked very left-y & pro-Union, and now look at Boomers… while some of us are still very very committed to left/progressive causes/goals/politics, a huge swathe of the Boomers gradually “defected” to the rightwing side.
I put this out there bc I think that’s a general trend across all generations. As people get older, start families, etc, there is a tendency towards a more conservative viewpoint. In 1950s/1960s, there was more of a notion of everyone paying “their fair share.” Since this 1970s, the Elites have worked very very very hard – and quite successfully – to erode/devolve this “fair share” notion into: a) NO Taxes EVER under ANY circumstances, b)I got MINE, EFF you, and c) Unions are EVIL.
Just a warning to Gen X & Y and Millenials… everyone starts out pretty leftie and then transforms over time. Best of luck (sincerely)!
Obviously the youger set is not hearing the message that almost every state in the union faces severe pension liabilities and that unless we restrain the growth of public sector pay and benefits, either the states will have to bail on those commitments or the taxpayers/federal government will have to bail them out.
Either way, it is a pretty dire set of circumstances if the growth in government (of which pubsec unions are just one part) is allowed to continue unchecked.
And before you say “just increase taxes on the rich”, let me respond. The SMART among the younger set know that is just going to hit them as well once they achieve their American dream. And they know that increasing taxes will just slow down growth of the private sector even more.
Then again, it’s hard to fit such a message in a 140-char Tweet.
We raise taxes, and the problem goes away.
progressive taxes.
The growth in Government continues unabated under Rs and Ds. None of them are willing to attack the three big issues:
Medical costs, which requires socializing medicine.
Defense costs, which require drastic reductions.
Decriminalizing a great deal of what is criminal, and reduce policing costs and imprisonment.
Then you can have become galt.
They watch Fox News it is very direct and its been on longer than MSNBC once an old person after retirement has time to watch the news regular they take some time choose a station and settle in.
Fox being direct and not well balanced like the MSM gets viewers.
The MSM balance of course is between the Right and the extreme Rigth. We can’t get anyone on tv to say end both wars now if you want to cut the budget. Instead the Media keeps putting on tv guys who say budget cuts and cut social security.
There is a reason why the Lefty blogs are growing and the Righty ones to.
We are both direct on what we want we want to save America by helping everyone and teaching the rich to share.
The GOP wants to destroy or enslave America’s problems like Old People, Poor people,Dark People, Gays, Muslims, Jews, Women.
By voting GOP if you are a member of any of these groups you vote to die.
Old People can keep dying at higher rates than any other first world nation because of no healthcare.
Dark People can keep going to prison at much higher rates.
Same with poor people.
Gays, Muslims and Jews can keep facing hate crimes fueled by Fox News and radio rants.
Women well the GOP gets its way abortion and birth control go out the window.
Crap Nice to see you Perris but I got to go I’ll check the thread later haven’t seen you in a while:(
Wisconsin’s pension is 98% funded.
I know you’re being satirical here. At least I hope so. Without any rein to government spending, you simply cannot raise taxes on the rich enough to even halve the deficit much less eliminate it. And don’t forget, Obama has said “the rich” are anyone making more than $200k a year, and that numnber keeps coming down. Those people in the youth demo are smarter than you think – they all want to be in that space one day and don’t cotton to being targeted, albeit in the future.
There’s more to it than that. As a veteran of the late 50s and early 60s, I recall how easy it was to get jobs right out of high school. Most of my classmates in 1959 could get work at Boeing in Seattle, and start families and own houses by the time they were 20 or 21. This was before the Vietnam War, of course. And when I graduated from college four years later, there were always four or five job offers on the table. Nobody really worried. You didn’t have to worry about making top grades at college; what mattered was the degree.
Now, the result of that was a lot of boomers assumed that the economy and their lives were on automatic pilot, and that the big thing was to ensure a good career and financial security. Why bother with politics? The unions were there, but that was someone else’s business. And so you find that despite the superficial radicalism of the period, the willingness to engage in costly organizational effort fell off. It was somebody else’s job.
There was a post here about a month ago quoting John Dewey, writing in 1940, in which he states that maintaining democracy (social and political) is an unending effort. You can never suppose that you have attained something permanent. It requires constant maintenance. We have seen how rapidly what we believed to be untouchable in the realm of civil liberties has eroded over the past 10 years. It can happen here.
So the signs that young people are beginning to see that the future is in their own hands and not someone else’s is a good sign. But there needs to be organization.
Wisconsin’s Debt and Unfunded Pension Liabilities make up 50% of its GDP. See Figure 2 in the link.
http://www.aei.org/outlook/100948
Not sustainable.
Galt,
We established some time ago that you no absolutely nothing about the economics of pensions, or about economics, for that matter. (Edited by Moderator: we established rules some time ago, and they state clearly no ad hominem attacks on other comments; else, you get mod noted. Play nice or not at all.)
I’m assuming you actually believe this assertion, specious and comical though it obviously is?
Go ahead and explain for me that whole “US businesses sitting on well over a Cool $Trillion in cash”…and not doing a damn thing with it in terms of stimulating the economy. And if you really wanna get fancy, you can go ahead and throw in the massive shipment of jobs out of the country…not to mention the off-shore tax havens that shelter many $Billions. At least.
You’re probably going to need to fortify yourself with another tall glass of Kool Aid. I’d go with the cherry, although the grape might work just as well..
The greatest drain on this economy is entitlements. Those have to be brought down. Now, not for the 55-year old set, or Grandma in the nursing home. Btut if we don’t start now, we will never fix this problem.
I am Galt.
GREAT to see you too tcu, it’s now my busy season and I am at work 7 days a week and have very little time to participate
business is not any better, it’s just that I am the only one who has not been laid off and there is that much greater work load, am working harder making less and that is the way of the world
I am trying to put together a new diary that will be ground breaking;
I am going to create a new word that I actually expect becomes mainstream, the title will be something like;
“the new economy, it’s not capitalism, it’s not socialism, it’s not communism, it’s not fuedalism
it’s corporatism”
and then I will demonstrate that capitolism actually isn’t bad, corporatism turns it from something that can be benevolent into something that is malignant
will be a while but there is the tease
US companies are sitting on cash for the same reason you are – that is the best investment they can make right now given the economy.
And as for jobs going offshore, they went offshore because we all are buying Chinese-made goods. Buy American, NIMBY. Trade in your Japanese car and French perfumes for American made goods and those jobs will come back here. Step up, be the first.
How about we “rein in government spending” by stopping the three (count ‘em, three) wars that we’re in? That might put a dent in the deficit. Further, we might as well break up the mega-zombie banks while we’re at it.
Oh…and did I mention that we need to tax the Uber-Wealthy? It’s time for them to either put up, or shut up.
And don’t give me that horseshit about there being a “spending problem.” While I will agree that there’s some low-hanging fruit that can be pruned away, the biggest issue right now is that there is a revenue problem, claims of The Orange Boner (etal) notwithstanding.
People, just scroll past the Libertard. Srsly.
Sounds like you’ll be citing Wolin.
http://www.thenation.com/issue/may-19-2003
We’re already stepping up. It’s time for the Jagoff MOTU to step up. As for the cash these businesses are sitting on, several hundred billion could easily be carved out (for starters) for all manner of infrastructure projects. I’m quite confident that the margins generated would yield far greater returns than what they can get out of the current interest rate environment. This ain’t exactly brain surgery.
And if the aforementioned Jagoff MOTU are not willing to step up, then I don’t want to hear another, fucking, bullshit word about “the entrepreneurs being the risk takers.” That assertion is demonstrably untrue, and it insults my intelligence to hear it.
Deficit – $1.6 TRILLION this year
Entire DoD budget – $900 BILLION
Hope there’s a hella lot of low-hanging fruit left.
Non-defense discretionary spending has increased 24% in two years.
Yeah, it’s a revenue problem, has nothing to do with spending.
where have you stepped up?
Is that supposed to be a confession? If so, you might want to tell your priest about it, and not us. We ain’t buying…
And all Americans deeply appreciate becomingjohngalt’s job offshoring efforts, for which we are forever grateful.
It’s more than odd that the champions of capitalism are hell-bent on eliminating the middle-class. Capitalism depends on making things (not on a mega-rich financial sector) and it’s the middle class that ‘makes’ things, not to mention makes up the 70% of consumers that drive this economy. Perhaps Republicans don’t understand capitalism? Ignorant Republicans? Unfortunately, not an oxymoron.
you are leaving out 1 huge number
remember back in 2008 when Wall Street went belly up
the Fed gave 13 trillion to wall street banks, where were u then?
nothing says welfare like 13 trillion
blaming labor unions for USA problems is so 2009
say this very slowly “Wall Street Failed”
David Dayen has a fresh cross-post ready: Tea Party Republicans Balk at Budget Deal
That really gets to you, doesn’t it? Just stop buying from the companies that offshore their jobs. That will fix it. It may cost you more but I am sure Prog-world will gladly pay more to Buy American. Wait, there ARE companies out there that steadfastly refuse to send work overseas – why are they not making any money?
link please – nowhere near $13 Trillion given away.
But then, facts are not a strong suit, huh?
I’m going to speak slowly here, so put on your thinking cap and try to keep up.
$One Trillion is Cash – $1.6 Trillion in your deficit figure immediately whacks the number down to $600 Billion right off the bat. Furthermore, that money invested in infrastructure projects would yield (at least) a $1.60 per dollar invested. Income, sales, property, excise and other fees and taxes would rise dramatically, thus further decreasing the defict number.
As I said, this ain’t exactly brain surgery.
By the by, you are aware that John Galt is a fictional character, right?
What a flaming pile of bullshit.
I concur. In fact, my investment in vomit bags alone has greatly stimulated that sector of the economy. And the bullshit meters? We’re obviously all going to have to get new ones. When the needle stays pinned all the way in the red, I just can’t get an accurate reading.
Hell, why can’t I get on the Sunday Yap Fests? Holy Joe, Johnny McMaverick, Rand Paul, David Gregory and… me…
Troll hijacking… don’t feed, folks. seriously: why? there’s no point, imo. Outta here…
Of course the young side with the Unions..they aren’t, yet, paying the eternal endless benifits thru exorbitant taxes..They have no real life experience..I thought the same way when I was young and dumb. The saying goes: If you are not a liberal when young, ytou have no heart..If you are not a conservative when an adult, you have no brains..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704050204576219073867182108.html
Sorta like what I used to leave on people’s porches on Halloween. Ring the doorbell and run for the hills. Good times…
Instant Classic.
Kinda how this thread devolved.
The trolls are all here.
Galt is anything but fictional, pal. There are plenty of us out there, and when we yank that rug out from under you, your head will spin.
Your numbers don’t add up either, but I am running out of time here. Plus, I just saw a new thread open up. Gotta jet.
yeah, this is like shooting fish (poor, delusional, jealous fish) in a barrel. And you guys PAY to use this site? LOL
Sorry
I broke my own rule,
I done an OBAMA I tried to reason with a fool.
in becomingjohngalt world Reagan tax rates were lower than Obama
wall street did not fail in 2008
etc. etc.
I always love how these trolls ask for a link, when their arguement goes up in smoke
becomingjohngalt your right the real number is not 13 trillion, Bernake is still printing and giving, the real number is probably 14 trillion
Young Progressive Labor Alliance
Jon Walker says
“I believe there is the potential for a powerful young-progressive-labor alliance in the simple message: The future doesn’t need to get suckier for the middle class.”
this is already happening in a lot of areas around the USA
Fact from Econ In Crisis
“Our young people are supposed to be the hope of the future, but most of them are up to their eyeballs in student loan debt. Americans now owe more than $875 billion on student loans, which is more than the total amount that Americans owe on their credit cards.”
the Young are getting hit hard by all of this, and they are not buying the crap on Phony Fox News.
Next time you see me send me the diary in case I miss it.
Galt FDR raised taxes on the rich and it got us out of the Great Depression and created jobs. What real world example do you have that lowering taxes creates jobs the Bush/Obama years? Reagan and the lowering of pay and benefits for the average worker?
I’ll take an FDR economy over a Reagan one anytime:)
This could have been an awesome thread about how we can organize young adults to take back our wealth from the criminal class. Instead we argued with a Galtardian true believer.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703712504576234840238716726.html?mod=WSJ_newsreel_opinion
I don’t think so. The smarter slightly older slackers have lived through Reaganomics since we were teenagers. We don’t believe it because we HAVE had a harder time then our Boomer parents. We’re moved back home and doubled and tripled up on roommates for the nicer apartments. We are accustomed to not being individuals because we can’t afford to be. Plus, we spend a lot of time with our grandparents, who knew a bit better about community and sticking together, not abandoning your people and your principles JUST to make a buck. Oh, sure, there are libertarians among us but not as many and most of those just want the refer legal.
Nothing… I’m older than 55 and I support unions 100%!
No, you’re not… Ayn Rand believed that one should give value in exchange for value. This current crop of Tea Partiers and Republicans does not believe that… who knows why.
Yes, I agree. No offense intended to any of the regulars who post here and speaking only for myself, I’m really sick & tired of the endless stupidity of attempting to “converse with” or “debate” these sock puppets. they add *nothing* of value and keep spewing forth the same few vapid tired rightwing/Randian “talking points.”
IMO, bloggers who attempt to “converse” with them are permitting these jerks to take over this site, which is, I believe, the intended consequence/outcome.
I say: Stop the Madnesss and stop attempting to “converse” with these known trolls. They are severely detracting from this site (just my humble opinion).
Great Post!
could have not said it better!
In good times. younger people told me unions were crocs, because they’d watched Fox News. Now the reality of the Wisconsin protests & social media have enlightened them. When & if Unions again become strong, there may be a small chance America will become economically sound. Expect more extreme anti-Union actions from Tax dodger Corporations. They’re not done trying to throttle the life out of America.
Do you have job re-writing History? Where is the chance that today’s young people will get rich someday? The best & perhaps only chance to get rich is to inherit from robber baron parents. There will be no base from which to get rich if Corporate America keeps on dodging taxes & then hogging government services. Man, you live in a fantasy of Lovecraftian proportions.
Okay. So stop the Govt. giving 3.2 billion in tax breaks to a corporation which pays 0 taxes on 14.2 billions in profit. Is the govt.allowed to stop spending on these guys too? There is a tremendous amount spent on the rich & nothing on the bottom (the poor). Your rhetoric is based on a scenario that’s never worked except in the Fantasy fiction supply siders are addicted to. Only the Oligarchy believes in what you say. A smart young person looks at the impoverishment of the American worker & realises that your politics comes out of sensory deprivation. You must have no idea how ridiculous your ideas appear in the minds of most Americans who have no more job, no more home, no more car, no more money. They only see you as among those whose ideas created the economic holocaust of the 21st century.
If we don’t have money to pay for foreign goods, we don’t have money for local goods either. And if you check carefully, you’ll find almost every ‘American’ good contains 25-75% foreign parts. Your beloved corporations outsource virtually everything. There’s nothing American left to buy. When you buy these ‘American’ goods you give the money to corporations who then take them off shore to hide in tax shelters. We pay every thing to corporate traitors.
Let’s see. Variation: mug a liberal, he becomes a conservative. Truth in fact; Bust a conservative for Drugs, he immediately becomes a liberal (case in point —Rush Limbaugh, who said throw away the book when people do illegal drugs, but when he got busted, he dug through the trash looking for the book he’d thrown away). These pithy aphorisms do not economic truth make, but they are good at redirecting untenable positions.
This is a debate. The fact that the Rightists are either illiterate or Automated Response Machines may be unfortunate, but the necessity of dialogue should prevail. We are no longer at the Saturday Afternoon Tea Party waiting for the mushrooms to take effect—we are in a fight for the life of America. The more controversy sites like this make, the more people come to them to see what the fuss is all about. The onus is on the rightists for not doing a good job. ‘Where O Where is the William F. Buckley of the 21st Century American Right?’
What we need to do is:
a) Convince young people of the value of private sector unions.
b) Get big labor to organize new fields. Personally, I’d love to re-establish a domestic manufacturing sector (and hope it happens) but in the meantime, or in addition to that, let’s organize various forms of professional and semi-professional/managerial and retail workers. Start small, or start big: target Wal-Mart and go to war (like the strikers did in the 1920′s and 30′s) until we win. Then the others will fall into line.