FL has had a photo ID to vote law for years. I haven’t heard any complaints about it since it was first proposed.

The Republicans won’t be happy until the laws are reverted back to when land owning white males were the only ones allowed to vote.

Yep. And no more direct voting for the Senate. Back to being appointed by state legislatures.

If I remember right the NAACP filled a lawsuit about it.

I don’t know how it works in other states, mine has a small population. Our legislators are so accessible, we can attend hearings and are allowed to speak. Citizen-lobbying is possible, and it makes a difference.

Madison is the capitol, I lived there but never participated in the process. It seems like the students, who must come from all areas of the state, could lobby against this foolishness.

This is how we have been successful to hold back voter ID in NM. We have a R gov and SOS this year, the two offices that can push the Dem legislature on voter ID, and they will try. But we will be pushing back, as we always have. I hope we are successful.

The official reason for these changes would be to stop “voter fraud”, which is acually extremely rare.

So the GOP wants a legal remedy for a problem which they can’t show has done damage to anyone in an election?
This sounds like they have even less legally than Bush did in Bush vs Gore.
Please tell me someone will do a court challenge.

Let’s be honest, you really can’t get elected if the people you are screwing over can vote. I know, I know, except for the south and mid-west, you get my point though.

That was when it was first passed but they lost.

It’s necessary to have a photo ID in order to cash a welfare check, like it is with any other check. The young, poor, and urban don’t seem to have a problem with that.

It’s necessary to have a photo ID to apply for almost all forms of public assistance, including whatever Wisconsin calls “food stamps” now. Nobody who’s ever been in a checkout line doubts the ability of the young, poor, and urban to cope with that requirement.

Redeeming a Medicaid card for a prescription requires photo ID, as does purchase of beer, cigarettes, and a host of other things that are restricted by age or other requirements. The young, poor, and urban don’t appear to have much trouble.

In fact, a photo ID is necessary for almost any participation in the economic system short of armed robbery — whichever end of the weapon the person is on — and somehow the young, poor, and urban manage to get by.

The same vans that take the young, poor, and urban to the polls can easily ferry them to a place where photo ID can be dispensed, and the cost thereof is about the same as the pack of cigarettes or six-pack of OM often passed out as incentives to vote — and the law specifies that the fee can be waived if the applicant is indigent.

The only barrier to anyone’s getting a photo ID is if they aren’t legally entitled to one. It follows that the only possible objection to photo ID for voting is that you want people who can’t legally vote to do so. It is becoming more and more evident that crying out about “outrages to small-’d’ democratic principles” is a coverup for people whose ambition is to enable vote fraud.

Regards,
Ric

Gee and the pukes are for the Constitution and the rule of law… Yeah sure when they don’t like a law they try to change it same with the Bill of Rights re: 14th & 18th. We should deport every damn one of them for treason against the people of the Untied States!!!!

Haven’t there been convictions for voter fraud or related offenses in Wisconsin, say since the 2008 election?

Who is Frank Walton?

Is anybody prepared to say there have been no cases of voter fraud in Wisconsin this century?

What is this criterion “doing damage”? Is voter fraud okay if the amounts are small and couldn’t have affected the outcome of the election in question?

You aren’t trying to imply that Frank Walton committed voter fraud and got caught are you? The fact he was caught would seem to imply Wisconsin already has an effective voter fraud prevention program, no?

The fact that Frank Walton got caught implies there is voter fraud.

If 1 murderer is caught and convicted in New York City, is there necessarily an effective homicide prevention/investigation/prosecution program?

Voter fraud is very rare across the country. Voter registration fraud happens a little more often. This is when an organization pays individuals to register people to vote. Sometimes those individuals turn in forms that they simply filled out so that they can get paid. Both Acorn and the Republican Party have had legal problems regarding this. It does not mean that Acorn and the Republican Party have committed fraud. It also doesn’t mean that people voted illegally. It means a few people did the wrong thing by turning in bogus registration forms usually with bogus names.

(And as an aside, the video taken of the Acorn employees has been shown to be severely edited by James O’keefe.)

It really is true that conservatives do everything in their power to restrict the voting of poor people. You can bet your bottom dollar that soon this will extend to the middle class. No pun intended.

Last time I got my license it was a full day six hour affair. For many people taking a full day off working is a serious burden.

Also if you are requiring a photo ID is it absurd to think about getting rid of same day registration.

There are thousands of older black Americans across the south that have neither birth certificates or drivers licenses. Just because you don’t know about situations like this doesn’t mean it isn’t true. These people are older. They were not born in hospitals because their mothers were not allowed to deliver in the hospitals. They don’t have drivers licenses because they don’t drive. This is a cultural issue that many main stream folks know nothing about. Sort of like the 25% of New Orleanians have no automobile. That is why they could not leave during Katrina. You see, being poor in America is considered a sin. And for some people being black is considered a sin.

And don’t get me started on the ways that people were restrained from voting in the 90′s. That would be the 1990′s, not the 1890′s. I could easily overwhelm you with facts.

How is murder and voter fraud similar? The means of accomplishing each are quite different.

http://maciverinstitute.com/2010/11/convicted-acorn-worker-sentenced-to-10-months-in-jail-for-vote-fraud/

I can’t tell if this link is correct or not. There are instances of people voting illegally, for example by absentee and then again at the polls, mentioned here. I also don’t know the final resolution of these cases.

Is your significant other keeping secrets from you? That’s the thing with secrets, it’s hard for you to tell. So it is with voter fraud. It’s hard to tell if it’s occurring.

It’s necessary to have a photo ID in order to cash a welfare check, like it is with any other check. The young, poor, and urban don’t seem to have a problem with that.

Have you ever heard of direct deposit?

It’s necessary to have a photo ID to apply for almost all forms of public assistance, including whatever Wisconsin calls “food stamps” now. Nobody who’s ever been in a checkout line doubts the ability of the young, poor, and urban to cope with that requirement.

I stand behind people in line all the time when they use their Food shares card. They only have to know the pin number. No ID required.

Redeeming a Medicaid card for a prescription requires photo ID,

Do you have a Wisconsin link? On this one I am not familiar.

as does purchase of beer, cigarettes, and a host of other things that are restricted by age or other requirements. The young, poor, and urban don’t appear to have much trouble.

In fact, a photo ID is necessary for almost any participation in the economic system short of armed robbery — whichever end of the weapon the person is on — and somehow the young, poor, and urban manage to get by.

The same vans that take the young, poor, and urban to the polls can easily ferry them to a place where photo ID can be dispensed, and the cost thereof is about the same as the pack of cigarettes or six-pack of OM often passed out as incentives to vote — and the law specifies that the fee can be waived if the applicant is indigent.

The only barrier to anyone’s getting a photo ID is if they aren’t legally entitled to one. It follows that the only possible objection to photo ID for voting is that you want people who can’t legally vote to do so. It is becoming more and more evident that crying out about “outrages to small-’d’ democratic principles” is a coverup for people whose ambition is to enable vote fraud.

Your faith in big government is misguided, but touching.

Genuine conservatives have always been committed to LOCAL government. In an age of facial recognition software, there is no reason for Americans to submit to photo identification cards in order to exercise their Constitutional right to vote.

Proof of residency, which is relevant, can be confirmed with an energy bill. That is the way it is now and genuine conservatives in Wisconsin want it to remain that way.

The plus side of this is that it will aminmate liberals and conservatives who agree on many things. Perhaps we can recall Governor Walker after his first year in office. Let the dim witted Lt. Governor try to run things.

Your link is about Voter Registration Fraud. A completely different animal.

Scroll down.

Republican Voter Registration Fraud in San Bernardino

McCain Employing GOP Operative Accused Of Voter Registration Fraud

Voters say they were duped

California Republican Party Voter Registration Fraud

The Myth of Voter Fraud

truth about fraud

Voter fraud not a significant problem

Right-Wingers Will Claim Voter Fraud, But The Real Problem Is Voter Suppression

This kind of GOP behavior is being rewarded and emulated on the national level, as their state chair has just been elected RNC PR BS.

Lets not forget if you have gray hair you can get smokes and booze without a photo id. Heck if you just look old you can get them without a photo id and by old I mean past 25

This aimed at homeless people the GOP wants property owners only to vote this is there sly way of getting us back to the good old days when only White Male Property owners could vote.

The “voter fraud is rare” mantra is smarmy, po-faced disingenuousness. Since there are few places with requirements for voter ID, there is no way to know whether voting fraud occurs or not in most cases. Certainly voter fraud would be more difficult, for Republicans as well as Democrats, if secure ID requirements were in place. End Republican vote fraud!

I am a conservative with strong libertarian tendencies who mostly votes Republican, because the programs they advertise come closer to my ideals than those of Democrats. Personally, I am very unhappy with any ID requirement at all for American citizens, including passports — you may or may not know that the United States was one of the last countries to adopt ID requirements for international travel. The world is how it is, however, and in an environment where ID, including photo ID, is required for the most trivial economic transaction there is no reason to object to photo ID for voting other than a desire to commit fraud, or a wilful disengagement from the realities of life.

Some of the counterarguments, above, are simply silly. Direct deposit works well and avoids theft — but try to get a bank account without some reliable form of ID and you will be deeply disappointed. That difficulty is partly overcome by having the State maintain the accounts, but when I went to collect unemployment, which uses that system here in Texas, I had to show photo ID and provide a birth certificate. Using the card doesn’t require ID. Getting the card definitely does. Utility bills can be, and are, scanned and reprinted, with edits as desired, on laser printers identical in function to those used by the utility — even the same models are freely available.

Yes, there are old people, many though certainly not all black, who didn’t get birth certificates for many reasons, including but not limited to past racial discrimination. In my original home in East Texas, which is as Southern as anything in Mississippi, I knew many of them. There are simple and effective, if sometimes not quick or easy, ways for them to establish identity and get “on the books”, involving the testimony of neighbors and relatives — and they are used to qualify for Social Security payments, Medicaid and Medicare, and a thousand other programs. I’ve provided such testimony myself. There are more “refuseniks” who don’t care to participate in social programs than there are people genuinely disadvantaged.

The same expense and effort needed to mount an effective demonstration against the requirement could be applied to get everyone qualified the necessary ID, but that isn’t sexy enough, is it? You wouldn’t be “animated” to get your fifteen seconds on the teevee news, carrying signs and shouting obscenities. It says a lot about your priorities.

Regards,
Ric

Have you ever heard of direct deposit?

You have to have ID to get the bank account for the direct deposit.

You have to have ID to get the bank account for the direct deposit.

Unless you opened the bank account prior to 1986.

I call bullshit. The affirmation is all that is required – you sign stating you are who you are, and it is up to the government to challenge a voter’s right to cast a ballot. My Grandmother voted as soon as women got the right. She never drove, never had a license or state id. She resided in a care facility and was able to vote in the care home.
Your support for this obvious attempt to limit voters rights is akin to the old saw regarding government intrusion – if you have nothing to hide, you shouldn’t be concerned with government intrusion. A very important cart before the horse. It’s the government that bears the burden of proving intrusion or limitation, not the citizenry.

Laura, in an ideal world you’d be right, and I’d be arguing your part. That ship sailed long ago, and it’s not coming back.

Your Grandmother is not remarkable — I’ve never had to show any kind of ID to register or to vote, because I live in a small town and all the people involved know me; I don’t even show ID at the bank, because I held the clerk when she was a baby. I would like it if we could all live in an environment where that degree of familiarity and trust was routine.

We don’t, and can’t. Like it or not, we have people on both sides who don’t trust the process, and once trust is broken it is very, very slow to return. Vociferous refusals to accept the notion of ID for confirmation of eligibility slow that return of trust rather than advancing it.

I don’t like any ID requirement, voter or otherwise, but once trust is lost, the only fallback is some form of verification, and that’s where we are. I don’t trust you not to diddle the process, and you sure as Hell don’t trust me; what shall we do? I’m not going to start trusting you as long as you’re peddling paranoid lies (“It really is true that conservatives do everything in their power to restrict the voting of poor people.” — not yours, but you seem sympathetic) and you’re not going to start trusting me until I agree with redistributionism, which will happen when Hell freezes over, not likely with Global Warming. Voter ID isn’t a good thing, but it’s the least bad thing we can do.

The point of this article was that it’s onerous for “young, poor, and urban” people to get ID. That’s bullshit, and if you don’t know that it’s because you don’t pay attention — and if you do, why are you peddling the crap? People need, and get, ID for all kinds of reasons. An ID for voting is no different than one for any other purpose, and you’d be much better served by going along with the requirement and focusing your efforts on helping the disadvantaged get the necessary papers.

Regards,
Ric
[who must now abandon the lists for other commitments; have a happy, all]

Why the nastiness?

From our governor who promised to balance the budget and cut unnecessary spending, WPR news quoted additional costs of $5M per year to manage this program, as State driver license renewal locations, hours and personnel are already cut to the bone. Seniors and minority groups are expected to be disproportionately affected by this proposed legislation. Same day registration, the unique feature of WI voting that has allowed unfettered voter access, will also disappear.

Maybe I missed it above but regardless of having a valid ID, who is going to be checking the computer programs counting the votes. Do you actually think that the four bad votes proven in WI is worth the $5M expenditure when it doesn’t come anywhere near to solving the real “trust,” needed in the process. Fight the right battle, anyway if you are worried about trusting the election process. Insisting on voter ID is not the problem, period.

Just the beginning, folks

One flaw among many in our Constitution, is that determining who has the franchise is left to the states. They are not at all required to extend it to everyone, even in theory. The 15th, 19th, 24th and 26th were incomplete and imperfect patches on correcting that flaw, which should be cleanly and simply remedied by federalizing voting qualifications and procedures, and Constitutionally making the franchise part of citizenship, which the 14th defines pretty broadly.

If we don’t get that clean solution, the Right has made it quite clear that we are on just the leading edge of a new wave of Jim Crow style practical systematic denial of the vote, even where the Constitution in its current state theoretically protects the right to vote. They can’t openly deny the vote to, say, Hispanics, because of the 15th, but they had the 15th in Jim Crow days, too. That just meant they had to pretend it wasn’t race, it was a grandfather clause, or a literacy test, or a poll tax, that kept blacks from voting. But, oh no, it wasn’t race! That would have violated the 15th!

This time it will be partly denial of the franchise by inconvenience, as cited in this item. But they will go further, probably much further. Nothing keeps them from having a property requirement. Only the courts could keep them from putting back literacy or language tests, or some modern version of the grandfather clause, whereby all those who couldn’t trace ancestry to legal immigrants would be denied the franchise. The 14th may grant citizenship to those born in this country, but that’s not the same as the franchise, and the 15th most certainly does not say that all citizens thereby have the franchise.

Thanks Mary M, for the links. Thanks Boo and Ben and TCU who’s names I have seen elsewhere in WI blogs.

OT, Oh yeah, let’s not forget the proposed discrimination against minority 4-yr-old children who will be finger printed and tracked for a lifetime having done nothing wrong, to “curtail,” very limited adult perpetrated state funded early education fraud.

Why nastiness? Why not? You and your fellows aren’t inhibited.

It is not genteel or “civil” to accuse me and mine of mopery, dopery, and skulduggery along the spaceways — case in point, gtomkins’s paranoiac postulations @35 — no matter how careful you are to phrase it. I simply reply in kind, with occasional outbreaks of temper.

I and my fellows would be happy to deal with you on the basis of good faith, provided you were willing to return the favor. Since you clearly are not, you’re going to see some intemperate language. Deal with it.

Regards,
Ric

Do you have a specific electoral race your concerned about the outcome? Because, really, the 2010 cycle went the Republicans way.

What could you be possibly complaining about?

The short answer is, I don’t give a damn.

Expanding somewhat: I’ve said I vote Republican because their views are more similar to mine. The margin is pretty damned small. Both parties are occupied at the top levels by people who consider it their birthright to fuck with me. My objection to Democrats is recent, based on the ascendancy of an ideology that not only declares itself entitled to fuck with me, it assigns itself moral ascendancy to justify it — FOAD. I’m determined to vote, but I have only one example in forty-odd years of voting that wasn’t lesser-of-two-evils by a thin margin, and that was local, a neighbor I liked and trusted.

That being the case, if there’s vote fraud I want it stopped, be it Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, or Monster Loony Party, and regardless of who won or lost. Clear enough?

Regards,
Ric

In other words your not giving a damn, simply means damn the facts, right? It’s just about you, you’ve claimed already, and not the other thousands of people who voted, whose votes were likely scrubbed by a computer system. Obviously facts don’t matter to you, with less actual voter caused, voting fraud than you can count on one hand, but thousands of machines potentially miscounting votes, 10′s of thousands of votes likely tampered with (maybe even your vote), was not of concern to you, and Florida and Ohio, 2004 and Diebold don’t even ring a fucking bell in your head.

You claim you want to get the monkey off of your back so your vote counts, and money from voting machine manufacturers doesn’t ever influence politicians and their decisions about how a state will spend big bucks to set up its vote counting procedures. Nothing to worry about there, that’s the American way, free and open bribery for a big computer contract enterprise works for you.

Then, failing to make an intelligent or valid argument, dismissing facts presented nicely to you, you tell someone to fuck off and die? If YOU can’t win, shoot the opposition, wish them harm, wish them dead? Nobody that I am aware of is stopping you from voting to begin with, you claim one example of something bad happening in forty years of elections that you are aware of, and that’s going to justify your personal immoral ascendancy to basically wish someone dead because you don’t have the facts to back up your illogical stance on the issue being discussed. Are you going out next to shoot a couple of supposed undocumented voters to even the playing field for your one example of supposed fraud, or stand outside the neighborhood polling location with your penis strapped into your holster to intimidate them from entering if they don’t look, American, to you? Is that your idea of justice? You can’t intelligently argue your point, accept the fact that you are missing the bigger issue regarding fair voting, so you simply wish someone dead? Must be the true American way, you fucking say so.

The Constitution
Amendment XV

Section 1.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

Section 2.
The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Proof of citizenship, in no way, interferes with ones right to vote, unless, of course, you are not a citizen. But neither a photo ID nor a drivers license in no way proves citizenship..therefore, I submit that this is only a small step toward a requirement of proof of citizenship when voting, which should be a requirement.

Hey Kelly, it is irrelevant whether there is fraud or not..how about just following the rule of law.
Read Article XV of the Consitiution..it is that simple.