With nearly a full two years until the next election, the idea that Democrats are pre-ordained to lose at least four Senate seats, costing them their majority, is already gaining broad traction with both Democratic senators like Claire McCaskill and writers like Ed Kilgore. The dynamics of the 2012 Senate elections don’t favor Democrats inherently: they are defending 23 seats while Republicans defend only ten. However, there is no reason to believe the majority is lost so far out from the election. The relative number of each party’s seats that is to be contested is less important than the national political climate.
Let’s look back at the past three elections of 2006, 2008, and 2010.
2006 - Technically, this year slightly favored Republicans because despite holding the majority, they had only 15 seats up compared to the Democrats’ 18. The result, though, was that Democrats won six Republican-held seats and lost no Democratic seats.
2008 – This year the playing field heavily favored Democrats because they had only 12 seats up compared to the Republicans’ 23. The result was that Democrats won eight Republican-held seats and again didn’t lose a single seat they held.
2010 – Last year the playing field was relatively neutral with 19 Democratic seats up compared to 18 Republican. Republicans managed to win six Democratic-held seats and didn’t lose a single seat they already held.
Notice the pattern
In the past three Senate elections, the party that gained seats also managed not to lose a single seat. In 2010, even though several Republican-held seats (New Hampshire, Ohio and North Carolina) looked like really good pick-up targets for Democrats in early 2009, in the end they weren’t even close thanks to the national swing. The last election where both parties lost seats they once held was in 2004.
People will probably say these last three elections were all “wave” elections, but at some point you need to wonder if what we are seeing is a new political pattern due to increasing partisanship.
The Republican Senate caucus gained seats in 2002 despite having a bad playing field.
Republicans had a very difficult playing field in 2002, with 20 seats to defend compared to the Democrats with only 14. Still, Republicans managed to win three seats and lose only one for a net gain of two. It is true the 9/11 attack helped create favorable political conditions for Republicans, although it wasn’t too overwhelmingly favorable given that House Republicans only gained a mere eight seats to bring their majority to 229. This is an example of how a good political climate can result in gaining seats even with an undesireable playing field.
In 2012, if the voters again heavily favor Republicans, their gains would be above average due to the large number of Democratic seats being contested. On the other hand, it wouldn’t be unheard of if the political climate improves for Democrats to the point that their losses are minimal. The national climate is what is important.
I’m not going to predict right now whether Democrats will lose seats in the Senate. Given how quickly we have seen the political climate change in the last decade, such a prediction is impossible. My point is that it is far from a forgone conclusion that Democrats are going to lose their Senate majority just because of the playing field. It is completely plausible that Democrats hold steady or even manage to win seats in 2012.



59 Comments
Great points Jon. I don’t see the Dems losing any seats. I think the GOP controlled house will just serve to demonstrate the failure of a two party system. This will even the playing field.
The Democrats lost the Senate when they stopped being Democrats. Now they are the Not Quite Republicans.
Yeah, it’s not the numbers that will doom them next year, it’s Obama and their own covering for him.
Precisely. What difference does it make “how many of them” call themselves Democrats when they all vote like Republicans? Big deal. Call them choo-choo trains for all I care.
As usual Margaret is mostly correct. Except they’re not “Not Quite Republicans”. They are Republicans. Some Republicans have simply moved over to the Brown Shirt Party.
I’ve been thinking for a long time that things need to get a lot worse, catastrophically bad, before they can get better. And just like any other third world country they will only get better when there is chaos in the streets. When the protests are too big and too widespread, when the army won’t fire on the populace anymore and the civilian contractors are too afraid to come out of their hidey-holes, then we’ll get reform, some kind of a new, progressive party, etc.
The voters are pretty stupid and anything that goes on right now is meaningless because they won’t remember.
If the Republicans manage to cut many hundreds of billions from federal spending then they will take the house, wh, and senate.
If the Republicans turn out to be bullshit then the Demos will be back in.
Seems to me that the question is not will the Dems lose seats but “do they deserve to keep them.” Sorry, but I don’t think the Dems have earned anything.
How about RIABNs then? (Republicans In All But Name)
Oh no they won’t. There you are exactly wrong. Since they will refuse to cut the bloated military, that leaves infrastructure, regulatory and social spending. That means suffering. That means unemployment the like of which we haven’t seen yet. The Republicans know this which is why they are back peddling from that whole spending cuts thing as quickly as possible. If they succeed in what the teabaggers want, they piss off everybody else, (including the ‘baggers when they figure it out).
I’ll agree with you that there are many low-information voters, but disagree that they’re all stupid.
The overwhelming cash awash in elections is a real bastard/bully-in-the-schoolyard that keeps true information from those very people.
If you could push awareness into people, you would win them. And that’s what’s happening. Fake “awareness” is what’s in the zeitgeist and that narrative is near impossible to overcome in the current circumstance.
Why isn’t anybody mentioning the elephant in the room?
Citizens United gave the GOP the majority back in the House. Can there be any doubt?
I mean when a loon like Pat Toomey beats someone of the stature of Joe Sestak for a Senate seat in Pa. (ok granted, Pa. has a bunch of fucking morons) doesn’t that tell you something? Look at the expenditures of the candidates in that race and then take a look at the money that poured into defeating the Dems and it becomes crystal clear. Corporate money flowed into GOP coffers at an un precedented pace giving them a hefty advantage.
Jesus, batshit insane Sharron Angle brought in 14 million in a month in her effort to oust Reid. Christ, in normal times she couldn’t have raised a fucking nickel she is so damn nuts. Damn near the whole Republican establishment in Nevada came out for Reid because they knew she was certifiably insane but that didn’t prevent her from attracting that kind of money thanks to Citizens United.
Whata pity. I wish they would lose lose lose. PoSs, all of them.
“Notice the pattern”
Yes, we continue to go back and forth electing either a Democrat or Republican “hoping” that a candidate will represent the interests of citizens first… too bad, those days are gone.
If they ever were. It’s always been an illusion, it’s just gotten unusually transparent lately.
More to the point, why can’t they all, every single incumbent, lose?
Because it only flips to the other side in the same group.
I expect increased volatility, as regardless of party affiliation or money spent, people are increasingly pissed off and the voters are only going to punish, not reward.
The futility:frustration ratio will remain in parity for teabagger and progressive alike.
Hoping you are right.
Even though the consequences of ‘losing’ are becoming megagillionares in the consulting biz, at least they will have suffered some kind of loss.
They aren’t even opposite sides of the same coin. They’re like the old trick two headed quarters.
I’m only talking about the politics and reps, not resulting policy.
Policy will go to the “owners” which certainly are not the useful-idiot teabaggers.
Does it really matter Dems or GOP…they all seem to have an inherent hatred for the least fortunate……remember the zeal they demonstrated in voting to defund ACORN……
If you ain’t rich…you are doomed,it’s really that simple.
Heh – and with Boehner at the HOuse Helm, we can call it “loaded dice.”
Agreed.
It won’t make any difference which party wins now. The corporations will own every single member in another couple of cycles, it probably won’t take that long. Hell, they’ll go into Vermont and beat Bernie Sanders next time he is up for re-election and the people of Vermont love him. Money talks and we only can whisper while corporations can scream at decibels beyond our comprehension. It works. Many pretty decent candidates were beaten by idiots in November.
Good. Now that we have that settled…
I want to mess with the system, locally. I’m thinking of going kind of “Borat” locally and signing up Republican and just totally jerking the chains. Harshly.
the question has to be will the 23 democratic senators up for election in 2012 follow OBAMA on his death marches?
Will Obama be able to keep the Dems in line?
Political Mal-practice doesn’t explain what Obama done today.
Getting in bed with Wall Street “BILL DALEY” when most americans hate Wall Street is insane! to say the least.
You are probably correct and much of it may have been an illusion. However, in my lifetime, I have never felt such an all encompassing complete lack of representation for the citizens as I see now. Up until former President Clinton entered the scene, the Democratic party was never the “corporate loving” party, or the “tax cuts” party. Neither party represents the citizens. It’s just sad to see what is happening to this country.
Well, give it a try and let us know how it works out.
I’m a scientist by training, and the worst I can foresee about what you suggest is a failed experiment. Hardly a worst case scenario, and if your experiment succeeds perhaps it can be replicated.
Well said.
What do teabaggers want that Republicans and Democrats don’t give them?
Low Federal Income, Unearned Income, Estate and Capital Gains Taxes.
No Jobs, Reduced Gubmint Jobs. Reduced Social Welfare/foodstamps/medical care.
Increased local taxes and exorbitant insurance rates.
Huge MIC Budget. Patriotic sentimentality. American Exceptionalism. Christian Nation.
Education Cuts. Crumbling Infrastructure. Unplowed snow drifts. (Keep the gubmint outta my way!)
Privatization of schools, prisons, utilities, garbage collection, toll roads. High gas prices. No public transportation. No green energy.
Increased police state. Reduced Civil Liberties.
What is there that a teabagger can complain about?
Heh – useless to science or politics, as it won’t be anything more than theater; but I might as well enjoy myself!
Abortions?
Yeppers!
I agree that the Presidential elections tend to be “wave” elections with the winner bringing home the Congress for their party. But if Dems vote like the GOP – why worry. We will see in the next 18 months if the Democratic Party is worth saving.
Meanwhile, going way off topic – sorry – the posts of late have had no “green” thoughts – granted what has been posted was important and interesting.
I’ve been looking at CES and the Green car exhibits like the wireless induction charger for electric cars, and I was thinking about the arguments about the value of dropping gas only cars for hybrid and electric. I do not recall where the facts are these days in that discussion and wonder if my bias toward electric cars is still justified. The oil folks claim one should ignore the inefficiency of the gas engine and the small power plant versus the large power plant’s greater efficiency because there is a loss in the “green” multi-step process of converting chemical energy to mechanical, mechanical to electrical, electrical to chemical (charging the electric car’s battery) and then chemical back to electrical back to mechanical to actually drive the car. And I do not know the actual numbers – would appreciate a future post on this.
I note that the Brits have a privatized power industry like the US but have government owned/controlled infrastructure to transmit it to houses, so one can insist on buying green produced energy if coal fired power plant current ruins the green image of your electric car. Is this a possibility in the US? CES forces a comparison of the Chevy Volt (or 2012 Ford Focus electric) or Leaf to the Tesla’s model S which with the extra large battery will get around 300 miles on a full charge (a 16 hour charging chore at 240V. I do not know how to do the comparison – again a post would be useful. Thanks – and again sorry about going off topic.
I think what we’re seeing is the desire on the part of the lumpen (myself included) to stop by gridlock any and all actions undertaken by the filth in Washington. The kabuki’s getting to be a complete and total freakshow as these people struggle to sell America out and still be re-elected.
The one thing the Intelligent left must do is recognize the GOP is not full of a lot of albert eisteins.
the GOP at the present time has very little brain power.
tricking GOP members to do things that hurt the elites, is not going to be hard to do.
wall street can crashed at any time? do you think the current batch of GOPers are going to bail out wall street? No
it is not really a big secret, but the current GOP is under the control of a lot of crazy people! if the Orange Man doesn’t do what the people that love tea like, we are all going to see a huge EXPLOSION IN THE GOP.
this EXPLOSION is going to create a lot of Chaos on Capital Hill
this Explosion may create a way for Progressives to finally put some real progressives in the Senate. (why a lot of Senate seats may be up for grabs)
the one things progressives know, is LYING can get you to the White House ask OBAMA.
TEA PARTY candidates may destroy a lot of GOPers in 2012.
Agree with you there – I just wrote letters to both of my Senators and my Congressman that I will vote for Republicans if it’s the only ballot choice if they continue to support “Republican-lite” President Obama.
As for our President – I’ve totally given up on him. There is absolutely NO WAY I will vote for him in 2012.
Others can call me whatever they want – low information, high information, traitor, yada, yada, yada. I am a life time Democratic voter up to this point.
Thanks John.
I left a long comment on previous thread about senate reform.
But I agree with you — there are too many uncertainties to predict 2012. However, because the key issues to me appear to be related to corrupt financial practices and climate-related impacts, I don’t see the GOP as very competitive.
And I also think the voting cohort currently ages 18 – 35 will be absolutely key. I don’t see the GOP having anything meaningful to say to those voters about economics, the climate, corruption, or innovation.
But the Dems need to seriously drill down.
Thank God the Dems appear to have a few heavy lifters: Bennet (CO), Whitehouse (RI), Cantwell (WA), Wyden and Merkeley (OR). And that’s just a start.
The GOP has very few intellectual heavyweights; the Dems have quite a few.
Game on ;-)))
papau:
If you haven’t already seen it, you might enjoy watching “future car” with Alan Alda.
Scientific American Frontiers – Future Car
WHAT two party system?
*G*
Yep, and how about we factor in a ‘wild card’ scenerio like oh, say, Mexico.
Like This.
Just think of OUR own problems as you describe, and tack on terrorist/liberation efforts.
My how that would raise the brown race card and help fracture USA even more than it already is . . . liked your comment, thanks.
If the rethugs cut billions it will be at the expense of civil services.
Roads, schools, fire, police, healthcare, sanitation and more.
Cuz it SURE won’t come from the war machine budgets.
N people will be REAL pissed, and they’ll have the GOP to blame, which equals no votes.
Just sayin.
‘K, ya beat me to it, and not only that, ya said it better n I did, too!
Well done! *G*
Agree, and as Margaret says, they voters will be PISSED at the cuts. The next two years are gonna be INCREDIBLE as to the impact they create/have on the masses.
Tipping points are at hand . . . methinks, very BIG tipping points for the masses.
But that old, 1850′s Marxian term ‘masses’ has never really cut it for me. Today’s so-called masses include pretty damn smart people, starting with my auto mechanic (a genius), and including doctors, dentists, accountants, business owners, programmers, managers…
I don’t think those people like to think of themselves as ‘masses’.
I also don’t think they’re going to swallow GOP drivel (nor Dem unkept promises) and roll over while Wall Street continues to extract obscene windfalls.
I’m with you on that whole ‘tipping point’ concept.
I think that’s what I continue to see, slowly, but surely…
I agree with you!
Obama insane actions are speeding things up!
If what is listed below happens TIPPING POINT will be reached
John Hofmeister, the former president of Shell Oil, believes that American consumers could be shelling out 5 dollars for a gallon of gas by 2012. If that actually happens, it is going to absolutely devastate millions of middle class American families.
Vote and remove all Incumbents.Vote for a laborer,carpenter,truck driver,ect.
Jon-y, Jon-y, he’s our man! If he can’t do it, no one can! Nice try Jon but with Obama following the yellowbrick, (gold, with Bill Daley’s help), road to Wall street, we’re dead.
The owning class is so much ahead of working people in terms of money, organization and weapons that politics are irrelevant. The advent of electronic voting fraud has all but doomed efforts at democratic reforms. You can’t vote them out because in, all likelihood, you didn’t vote them in.
The policies of unlimited exploitation of people and natural resources, fueled by a predatory system of private banking, will eventually cause the USA to collapse. Sane, humane government might be established within that window of opportunity. Unfortunately, most USA citizens are ignorant of what is actually happening to them. The clarity of vision found in the FDL forums is encouraging.
Democrats aren’t going to lose the Senate in 2012. And that’s a good thing because….?
Jon, “Doomed” wouldn’t do justice to the Democratic Party that’s cowered to Obama! I’m surprised you didn’t hold back this post when talk surfaced that “Clarence Thomas” Obama has selected NON-Economist Gene Sperling (Poli-Sci undergrad, Law degree, a walk-thru @ Wharton & Rubin protege) as his Chief Economic Advisor. Remember Sperling? He’s the guy who front ran Greenspan’s dismantling of Glass-Steagall. Remember Glass-Steagall? That’s ok, few Democrats do.
I have to disagree with many comments about the country reaching a tipping point. I don’t disagree with the desire, or even the need. I just think it’s not gonna happen any time soon.
A dumbed-down public, surrounded with lots of shiny objects, and blitzed with astounding propaganda from every direction, is likely to do nothing but make increasingly desperate efforts to chase the American dream. Or, they will withdraw into survivalist, superstitious hermit caves.
How bad did things have to get in the Soviet Union before the people stood up? Is America at that point yet? I think conditions in America will have to get worse that the Soviet Union. The machine in America is just too well oiled.
They don’t need to cut any of the social net, they have Obama to do that.
using history as a guide may be n/a in this case. In the past dem and thug leadership presumably had the electoral interest of their respective partys at heart. Now with the democratic leader actively repelling as many voters as possible all bets are off. They all pretty much suck anyway.
I say it again, it is Obama that is cutting all of this. And he is doing it and getting away with it, because he is a democrat and we have all these democrats still loving him.
WADR, Jon, anyone who says that we’re going to hang on to ANYTHING in 2012, needs to explain how Obama, who was unwilling and unable to do much of anything about our problems when he had those big congressional majorities, is going to get rolling with the repubs now owning his political butt.
Will they let him mount a real stimulus operation for the economy?
Will they let him fulfill his promise to get all of our troops out of Iraq by the end of this year? That is, if he wants to…
Will they let him begin a serious drawdown in Afghanistan? That is, if he wants to…
Will they let him do something about the rampant corporatism that got us into this shit? That is, if he wants to…
I think he’s a caretaker president; the lamest lame duck we’ve had in decades, if not in our history. Unless the republicans do some things that are really, really, stupid (and that’s certainly possible) I think the only way to salvage something from this faux-presidency is, sometime along 2012, for the democrats to offer Obama up to the voters like a pig on a platter, as they inform him that if he runs again, it will be over their highly public mutiny.
If they do that, we might be able to hang onto some vestige of the political clout we have been reduced to.
Here’s an easy test: Say you had to bet your life savings on the outcome. (Okay, say you had savings and had to bet it.) Would you bet for Democrats retaining control? Would you ask for odds? If the answers are “yes” and “5-1″ or less, please let me know how to contact you.
“Tipping points are at hand.”
What Larue said…and the “tip” isn’t going to be in the direction of democrats having the slightest chance of hanging on to much political clout unless we dump Obama.
Satorist: What’s the over-under? :o)
If you need any cash to carry the wagers, let me know. :o)
This aint rocket science: Two years after an historic win for democrats and following 8 years of monumental republican fuckups, and with BIG democratic majorities in both houses, the GOP somehow succeeded in making the mid-terms all about Barack Obama. It paid off like a Las Vegas slot.
Now that they’ve got control of the House, and are within 6 blue-dog democrats (a piece of cake, I’d say…) of having the Senate in lockdown, making 2012 all about him is going to be like shooting fish in a barrel.
My 2c? Put it like this: I’m almost as enthused about the prospect of pissed-off democrats dumping him in 2012, and helping that along, as I was about voting for him in 2008. In fact, I think the anger that we’re seeing right here, is the tip of steadily growing iceberg. If the dem “leadership” insists on shoving him down our throats so that he can deliver another political tsunami on us in 2012, it will tear the party apart, and it should.
Poverty and long periods of low income have a way of dulling the appeal of shiny objects. Teaching courage through just and kind behavior is a way to offset irrational fear, imho. Lead by example.