The reason that Social Security is called “the third rail of politics” is because touching it is political death. The new Lake Research Poll for Social Security Works again proves this classic piece of wisdom. The poll found an overwhelming 82 percent of likely midterm voters oppose cutting Social Security to reduce the federal deficit. Across the political spectrum, Democrats (83%), Republicans (82%), and Independents (78%) are effectively all equally opposed to cuts.
Framing cuts to Social Security benefits as a way to make the trust fund solvent doesn’t make them popular. A solid super-majority of 67 percent of likely voters oppose cutting benefits to make the program solvent long term. Similarly, the poll found that 69 percent of voters opposed raising the retirement age to 69 as a means toward making Social Security solvent.
While cutting benefits or raising the retirement age–which is a de facto cut in benefits–are both extremely unpopular, there is strong support for the progressive, preferred solution to deal with any projected future Social Security shortfall. There is 66 percent favor gradually requiring employers and employees to pay Social Security taxes on income over the $106,800 cap. That is income is currently exempt from the Social Security tax.
Cutting Social Security benefits, either directly or by raising the retirement age, is deeply unpopular. No Democrat should even entertain the notion, especially given that the trust fund currently solvent for the next two decades, and the public is clearly behind the more progressive alternative to dealing with any future shortfall.
If Democrats in Congress or President Obama seriously try to advance these two regressive and damaging ideas put forward by Catfood Commission co-chairs Eriskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, one can only assume it would be a monumental political disaster for the party. The fact that Obama has not already moved to quickly distance himself from these recommendations is, in itself, already an action of political malpractice.



63 Comments
Clearly the voters have not been beaten & shocked enough yet to give in to the wealthy. Give O & the Rs & the CC a couple of more years, and expect the polls to reverse.
It’s obviously a case of eleventy seven dimensional chess/checkers/parcheesi.
Fixed it.
Don’t forget “Shoots and Ladders”.
Gee, hoocoudanide?
The beauty about it all is one can make up the rules as they go along.
Obama’s a Republican. So killing the Democratic party, along with looting the middle class, is just icing on the cake for him.
No its the day we start looking for a Primary challenger to Obama.
You all realize how desperate Obama must be to want to steal cash from old people? Obama’s banker friends must all really be broke if they are pushing Obama to do this.
It’s not political malpractice if your goals are being accomplished.
Hmmm… Turley is saying that he’s been listening to other people around the world and a great many of them are furious that Busw and Cheney are on book tours bragging about ordering torture and Obama is doing zip. Oh I hope somebody arrests them and brings them before the Hague.
I keep telling myself that one of these days I’m going to hit edit and it’s going to actually work.
Bwahahahahaha. Sorry Margaret, but applying hope anywhere is the worst kind of political pornography.
The voters want the removal of the wage cap as this is a clean easy fix – but then the voters wanted the public option – and we know Obama does not do what the voters want.
Things will get interesting.
It is becoming a good day when Washington does nothing – makes no changes to anything.
Is SS indexed to inflation? Even if it is food and gas are not used to calculate inflation right? But as a percent of whats spent food and gas are big parts of SS users spending those prices have increased times are tougher than washington knows.
But will it matter? Across the same spectrum 70% wanted the Public Option and look what we got
You romantic fool! ;^)
& I keep telling myself Im not going to struggle with password insantity: maybe the mods can see it is very hard to distinguish between the 0 & the O in the password they reset. Some stupid machine ex deus works against solving a password dilemma. End of rant. I had something to say earlier….
thank you.
this ain’t the third rail when you do NOT give a flying frack about the NON rahm-geithner-summers scum in your life.
rmm.
I love the power of the seniors…ie. AARP. And the large group of boomers will be getting there. I hope these folks never hear the end of this: folks love SS because it frees up the elders and that means some relief for the younger/parenting generation. Have they ever heard of win-win? O yeah: shoot it.
Politics, schmolitix. Just as Cheney proved that deficits don’t matter (to the moneyed tribes, aka the only people), he also demonstrated that politics don’t matter. Do what ever the fuck you want is the de facto law of the ubermenschen, and therefore of the land. Everybody hates it. Lah, how aborable.
Obama is obviously completely in, and has been from the get-go.
Fucking you sideways, worse and more creatively every day, is what these people get up in the morning and live and breathe and dress for.
There are no longer any political third rails, because politics implies “the people.” Who simply don’t figure in anything anymore.
I expect all White Male Tea Baggers to start shooting at anyone Dem or GOP who votes for this.
Candy Land
But it is mine to engage in. :)
According to Jane, AARP is firmly in the veal pen. Nothing more than a medical insurance parasite, which you can personally observe if you’ve ever woken up & turned on the TV in the early hours.
I agree with you!
Obama mission is to kill Social Security.
Progressives must get the NEO-LIBERAL scum out of the dem party ASAP
Not to mention that porn is in the eye of the observer, as one SCOTUS was prone to opine! *g*
they played this charming little song from the movie “Ratatouille” on Montreal radio the other day ..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_hdmt4vpBo
there’s a line “espoire est un plat bien trop vite consomme” ..
(hope is a dish consumed too quickly) which sorta struck me
then again, maybe it was written by Alan “Tittyboy” Simpson cuz it also says “car rien n’est gratuit dans la vie” (because nothing in life is free)
How?
Jon Stewart is on Rachel trying to pretend that he knows something about politics, rather than just being a comedian.
Jane is correct – AARP started as an insurance company agent, became a group of agents selling insurance, the group started up AARP to carry names to sell to, and today they sell massive volumes of health insurance and the group of agents are called AARP.
Despite that, in order to maintain credibility with their future insurance clients, they work to be honest and to advocate on behalf of seniors – avoiding that which the insurance companies forbid like single payer advocacy – but then they do not lie – just with hold a bit of information.
I would not put them totally in the veal pen – maybe just one foot. :-)
Sounds like distinction without a difference. I haven’t noticed AARP anywhere in the headlines against CC. If you wish to advance the hypothesis that AARP is a lobbyist for seniors, instead of a parasite living off them, you’ll have to provide me with some evidence that they are opposing CC. I may have missed it.
How?
We are creating our own political network, that will not operate under the control of the phony dems
our members are so piss at OBAMA, they force us to create another system
I hate the democrats that contact our members and say they love what OBAMA is doing, they can expect to hear a lot of 4 letters words.
I don’t know the exact formula, but benefit increases are tied to wage increases, as well as inflation. The theory behind that is that it allows the retired to participate in the increased wealth of society as a whole.
For example, if it was only indexed to inflation, retirees would essentially be living a 1930′s standard of living, just running in place. Wages since SS retirement kicked in have grown far faster than inflation, thus retiress share in that.
Big if though—–that model assumes wages will keep going up, and we all know they haven’t been for quite awhile.
AARP has actively worked AGAINST the interests of seniors for a long time. They serve the interests of those who target the elderly.
the phony dems are now fighting for ways to change the filibuster
where was all of this energy to change the filibuster 20 months ago???
do you still think the current democrats like FDR more than BUSH
We all knew OBAMA wanted to lose control of the House and Senate!!!(he hated the idea the dems kept the senate, thus the reason the MSM acts likes the GOP is control of DC, however everyone knows the Dems are still in control)
Obama wanted to cut Social Security, and tell americans he saved Social Security, because the Republicans wanted to cut it more.
So the Democrats in the Senate are looking for cover, because they know their task is to kill Social Security, some of these phony dems know when they cut Social Security their careers will end!
Jon, Jane & Fellow FDLers,
I am commenting out of topic but is anybody following senate s.510 Food Safety Modernization Act which according to some blog posts effectively bans home growing and small farm growing of Vegetables.
It bans Heirloom seeds which sustained Human civilization in favor of a monopoly growing GMOs. If the post implication is true we are in bigger trouble than we imagined and it introduces a systemic risk in our way of life through food control.
I saw a post whose link I am posting below:
Seeds – How to criminalize them
Another post is in favor of Tester amendment whose link I am posting below.
Link
If you think those blog accounts are true true please follow up with your representatives to voice your opinion.
Yes – Social Security has been indexed ever since the last true liberal president – Nixon – passed indexing in 1973, SS has been indexed on wage history by a wage index and during payout via a CPI index (the “Nixon” was a bit of snark – but compared to Obama he is so far to the left that Obama would never go near the Nixon health care plan).
The way it works is each years wage history is make equivalent to a current years history via multiplcation by the wage index – so as wages rise over time you do not lose out as they average your wages over 35 years – that 3000 you made in 1965 becomes a number very close to the 25000 that same job earned in 2000 – so you in effect get a wage based on current year salary levels – with the only work history of interest to the averaging process being the lousy wages you made as a clerk in 65 compared to the money one makes at your current job as a manager.
That 35 year average is then hit with the following very progressive formula (SS tax is regressive but the benefit calc is progressive which is why raising the wage cap, by giving smaller benefits for the extra wages, gives a an additional pot of money to the system, equivalent to a 1.75% payroll tax):
1. Multiply the first $761 of average monthly income by 90%.
2. Multiply the amount over $761 and less than or equal to $4,586 by 32%.
3. Multiply the amount $4,586 by 15%.
Now that your benefit is establish and they start paying you, there is another indexing for cost of living.
The cost of living index uses CPI-W which is the urban workers index – and which runs abut 0.5% below the regular CPI. An old retireed person index would run about 1% above the usual CPI because of health care cost.
The major change Simpson wants is in the work history index. The wage index usually runs about 1% above the CPI – that 1% being an increase in out standard of living – standard of living increases being something not evident under Bush but expected in the future. Simpson wants retirees to go back to the standard of living that existed when they started work – with the wage history not adjusted by the wage index, but instead adjusted by the lower CPI index.
So yes there is indexing – but then there is indexing – and then there is indexing – and the GOP want lower numbers via illogical indexing.
AARP pushes against no COLA this year for retirees.
https://action.aarp.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=889
http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/advocacy/info-10-2009/with_no_social_security_cola_looking_for_relief.html
Commentary on the deficit commission:
http://www.aarp.org/work/social-security/news-11-2010/deficit_targets_socialsecuritymortgagebreaks.html notes:
•Increase the Social Security retirement age by one month every two years after it reaches 67 under current law. It would reach 68 around 2050 and 69 around 2075.
•Lower cost-of-living increases.
•Gradually raise the threshold on the amount of income subject to the Social Security payroll tax.
•Give retirees the choice of collecting half their benefits early and the other half at a later age.
•More on Social Security
http://www.aarp.org/politics-society/government-elections/info-11-2010/federal_deficit.html Preoccupied With Debt, Washington’s Suddenly Facing the Federal Deficit – - Both parties are trying to tackle sea of red ink – - by: Tamara Lytle | from: AARP Bulletin | November 17, 2010
http://www.aarp.org/work/social-security/info-08-2009/keeping_Social_Security_strong.html is an editorial that more or less fights the CC
All the above is well and good – but I’m retired – very retired – and do not know if they are lobbying these points. And as you noted – the ARRP has not been releasing PR to the media that is against the CC.
I saw that – was emailed it – and find it hard to believe that Reid has schedule the bill for a vote.
could not edit my post – please note benefit calclation 3rd step should read amount over 4586 gets the 15% – so any wage over 55032 gets a smaller benefit per each extra dollar tax paid, which is why raising the wage capo is effective.
Fellow FDLers,
I posted in above post the link to those Articles about Senate S. 510 Food Safety Modernization Bill only because I did not see any coverage on this bill at FDL where scams are usually flagged by alert FDLers or at HP. I saw the article after being mentioned about it by Friend and if it is true it is something serious we need to tell to our representatives not to commit to.
Seed diversity and Heirloom seeds protected and will protect our civilization from catastrophe. If any corporation wants to foolishly ban this aeons old tradition for immediate profits our future will be in serious trouble. Still from the article I was not able to follow whether it is true or not even though the relevant sections were quoted.
Still we need to tell our representatives to be more cautious with this bill considering our recent Health care bill experience where we got mandates instead of Public Option or Single Payer.
this is corporate govt gone mad!
the terrorist that are hurting americans are in DC!
they call themselves dems and reps
in the middle of great depression number 2, we are not going to allow people grow gardens?
We have no coverage on something as serious as this either at FDL or HP. Cannot believe this happening if the article is true.
Wise Analyst: “If Democrats in Congress or President Obama seriously try to advance these two regressive and damaging ideas put forward by Catfood Commission co-chairs Eriskine Bowles and Alan Simpson, one can only assume it would be a monumental political disaster for the party.”
Democratic Movers and Shakers: So? ::shrug shoulders::
I cannot believe it, so holding hope the article is wrong on that and misunderstood the bill even though farming related articles are active on this bill and complaining about it.
Still there is no harm done by better bill readers cross-checking this aspect considering our recent HCR experience.
If it is true it is more serious than any other bills being considered by Senate and Congress.
We have a shortage of personnel. There are too many scandals, wars, broken hearts and Catfood Comissioners to expose it all. You will have to pick up some of the load. But there is a treat coming soon. TBogg and Matt Taibbi!
If as some here say Obama’s mission was to destroy the Dimocrats from within, he’s already almost accomplished it. If he wants to really finish the job however, cutting SSI should finish it off for at least a few generations.
I’m thinking some folks might try some (edited in moderation) remedies on those in congree who vote to cut SS. Obummerco is way underestating the shit storm that is going to cause. The healthcare debates are going to look like a day at disney in comparison.
==Modnote: let’s not go there==
If the banning personal seed usage for home gardens and small scale farms indirectly by red tape is true as mentioned in those blogs in the Food Safety Modernization bill currently in Senate for a GMO seed monopoly then we have a real serious issue, as serious as the Deficit Panel illogical recommendations to harm the middle class and our countries future economic well-being.
If reasoning is true this bill directly affects American Food Security in a negative way. If that GMO company makes a mistake whole country has to go starving. This is a benign fail case scenario. Now for the worst part. Do not know its long term effects on food chain on earth and propensity to be manipulated for bad stuff.
Analogy is having one mega bank in the country with no other banks, credit unions, thrifts. If that mega bank collapses everybody loses their savings and economy collapses. So for food safety one needs to have as many small family farms as possible for risk mitigation not the other way around which this bill is trying to push for. Anyway Heirloom seeds brought human civilization till this point quite successfully. GMO seeds just a recent phenomenon. If I have to bet I would on Heirloom and Organic seeds for humanity future well-being.
Love Matt Taibibi articles. It was his articles which brought light to most of us on bailout scams etc. and got our logical reasoning on the right path. Looking forward to them.
Wallstreet’s fundamentalist jihad against the old folks is just over the top.
I wonder how many Democrats will follow Obama on his political suicide run into the third rail?
Unbelievable. Yet, it’s happening due to men such as Peter Peterson, Robert Rubin, Jamie Dimon, Lloyd Blankfein, Alan Greenspan and the rest of the rotten bunch.
“No Democrat should even entertain the notion” …
ummmm … when we remove from The Dim-0-F*cks all the:
- DLC style $ell out scum,
- the roving villains,
- the stunningly politically incompetent
we really don’t have many “Democrats” left!
rmm
Judging from past performance I would say the Democrats will follow their leader, Nancy Pelosi and jump on that third rail.
Do it! You know Obama wants you to.
I think the problem is that a bit over two weeks ago, Obama passed the point of no return.
Social Security IS the third rail, but how can you politically “burn” a president who almost certainly understands that he’s now the lamest lame duck in american political history?
Social security is already means tested. That started under Reagan in 1983, when they made the check subject to tax if you had income over $32,000 a year. That number never moved with inflation, and so now many ordinary retirees get hit for tax on at least part of their social security checks.
The idea of raising the retirement age means that those who retire at 62 would have to take an even steeper cut than the 75%-of-normal currently in the law.
I agree with everyone that that’s playing with fire. A lot of people work occupations where they struggle to get to 62.
The fix is already in:
Congress will pass legislation and Obama will sign it to:
1. Raise the Social Security retirement age to 70.
2. Extend the Bush tax cuts
3. Increase military spending
Will Bernie Sanders fillibuster? Probably not.
NO
Social security is NOT already means tested.
The tax that started under Reagan in 1983 for income over $32,000 a year, modified by Clinton in 93, is a tax on income and income tax is a progressive tax – meaning lower income pay less.
A means test for the benefit itself makes it the same as any other welfare program. And welfare throughout our history is cut before defense or ag. subsidies or anything else. Indeed the GOP want to return to the poor houses of the 18th century and the sheriff’s right to sell the work of the poor and those imprisoned for being poor so that the rich can keep their tax down re the cost of maintaining prisons and poor houses.
A means test for Social Security kills the “we are all in this together” idea – an idea that the rich abhor
Food Safety Bill fears are bogus – this is same bill that introduced in 2009 and debunked by Snopes at that time.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/organic.asp
I am sorry that I could not debunk this last night.
Thanks for the article. But linked article does not discuss about organic seed harvesting which the below link blog finds issue about.
What I worry is there is no specific language exempting Organic Seeds form the bill. If organic seed harvesting is criminalized as argued by the below blog we have a serious problem at our hands. I recently saw two movies Food Inc. and Food Matters where the small farmers and seed harvesters in the Mid-West are being slowly squeezed out by lawyers of a GMO monopoly. By this trend we are building a systemic risk in our food eco system and if we allow this trend to continue we might do irreversible damage to our quality of life.
Anyway reposting the link and if you agree with conclusion after your logical analysis please do let your representative know of your opinion,
Seeds – How to criminalize them
It is a means test. Depending on your level of other income, up to 85% of your social security may be subject to tax.
If you don’t have that other income, the IRS does not touch the check.
since social security is already means tested, no one should be saying that it should be subject to a means test. If anything the $32,000 number should be raised.
Sign this petition to shut down the catfood commission and prevent social security cuts.
http://www.change.org/petitions/view/president_obama_shut_down_the_catfood_commission_now
The GOP is already off to a radical start. Attempting to defund public radio, votes to deny equal pay to women, denial of extending unemployment benefits… The Tea Party members aren’t even in Congress until January, but the post-election GOP is looking crazy already. Read it at MuddyPolitics.com.
Just so this issue is crystal clear… Social Security is a retirement trust fund for the poor. The wealthy would be upset if we went after their retirement accounts to pay off the national debt. Yet they have the nerve to go after Social Security. Why? Because it was all invested in Treasury Notes and they don’t want to bear the costs when they come due.
China invests in the same type of financial instrument. If the US defaulted on those Treasury notes, it could start a war with the Chinese. But, defaulting on the money which was invested for the poor’s retirement … well; we folks can be controlled and will be unlikely to fight back. Or if we do, the rebellion can be put down.
Even the wealthy buy Treasury Notes to save for their retirement. Yet, there is no plan to limit what will be paid to them when they cash them in.
Now-a-days the President can start a war without Congressional approval. Presidents use the money for wars which serve corporate interests.
Only the rich benefit from the wars we fight. Now, they want the poor to not only fight and die in them, but also to pay for the wars. The rich should bear the cost of paying it back through higher taxes. It is that simple.
Heck here is proof: Greenspan says deficit could spark bond crisis http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40182440/ns/business-personal_finance/
Basically the government is saying “we are willing to payout when rich people or China tries to cash in their Treasury bonds … But we would simply have to raise taxes if the working poor tried to do so”
As far as raising the retirement age, the working poor suffer more accumulative damage to their bodies than the rich. Once you reach 62, the bar for Social Security should be lowered so far they could hobble across it.