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Jack Conway pushed a debate in Kentucky about religious faith squarely into the US Senate race this weekend, and the Rand Paul campaign cried foul in a testy face-to-face meeting.
In the ad above, Conway uses a series of stories about Paul’s participation in a secret society at Baylor University, which mocked religion and behaved in somewhat subversive ways. Conway connects the strange group, called the NoZe Brotherhood, to Paul’s support for ending faith-based initiatives and charitable deductions for religious entities.
Paul’s campaign spokesman called the ad “shameful and despicable,” and Paul himself confronted Conway at a scheduled debate on Sunday.
“He’s descended into the gutter,” Paul, who referred to himself as a “pro-life Christian” said. “Jack, you should be ashamed of yourself. Have you no decency? Have you no shame?” [...]
“Values matter,” Conway said. “Why did he freely join a group known for mocking or making fun of people of faith? And secondly, when is it ever a good idea to tie up a woman and ask her to kneel before a false idol called Aqua Buddha?”
Paul never once answered those two questions, and attacked Conway throughout for, it seemed, having the audacity to ask them.
“You know how we know when you’re lying?” Paul said to Conway. “Your lips are moving. You’re accusing me of crimes. Do you know nothing about the process? You’re going to stand there and accuse me of a crime from 30 years ago from some anonymous source? How ridiculous are you? You embarrass this race.”
Clearly Paul has more of a problem with the dredging up of his Baylor-era past than the associated accusation about faith-based initiatives and charities. I understand that this is Kentucky we’re talking about, but that just seems like a weak connection to make, and furthermore there’s very little justification for such giveaways to groups who already get tax-exempt status.
I think Conway’s on safer ground when calling out Paul for his support for a $2,000 deductible in Medicare, or when he leads an effort of over 200 candidates against cuts to Social Security benefits. This Hail Mary attack has certainly pulled Rand Paul off of his script, and shows the Conway campaign willing to use anything in the fight. I could also see it carrying a potential backlash, however.
UPDATE: Here’s a much stronger exchange from Conway, hammering Paul for his retrograde views. By the way, he’s used all these issues in advertising.
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totally unrelated story, a new poll from dailykos/PPP shows a real WTF moment in AZ-3. John Shadegg’s old seat may be winnable. Ben Quayle’s son may actual lose to a random democrat in a heavily conservative district. Dem is winning big among independents and moderates who do not really have fond memories of the quayle name. However, as exciting as this is, it should be taken with a grain of salt since its a democratic polling firm. But still…WTF
Good to see Conway attacking. In a perfect world, there wouldn’t be negative ads, and there also wouldn’t be nuclear weapons. We don’t live in a perfect world. Had the Democrats retaliated in 1988 when these ads first got off the ground, we would probably have seen less of them today.
Is Rand’s middle name Tartuffe?
Rand Paul blew it by not brushing it off as a youthful indiscretion. By reacting defensively, Paul contributed to the idea that there is something there he should be ashamed of even now. And he should, but he hurts himself by communicating that defensiveness.
It was a character ad. It hit Paul for his false piety, trying to wrap himself in choir robes. It also exposed Paul’s John McCain-like testiness.
Paul’s libertarian attitude to rural Kentucky’s drug problems and the advocacy of a $2000 annual deduction for Medicare are going to hurt him more.
I am astonished that anyone would defend Conway’s ad.
I don’t know about everyone, but sometimes college students do stupid things. Things that either they allow to haunt them or things that they shrug off as adolescent mistakes.
I think this ad provoked Paul to show his true inner self in his responses. At least the ones quoted in this story. I think Conway prolly benefits more from Paul’s aggressive and nasty response and personal attacks toward Conway than from the contents of the ad.
** clutches pearls **
Tweety Chris Mathews had Conway on for ten minutes and kneecapped him relentlessly. If Tweety loves Rand Paul so much, he should have had him on for some sweet lovin’.
I agree.
Paul decides that this is the issue to get all angry and defensive about? It makes him look shady, overly defensive, and weak.
Say what you will about Conway’s strategy, but this stupidity helps him more than it hurts him.
Giggling like a girl at the drama.
I am not a proponent of faith based. Democrats have foolishly embraced Faith-Based initiatives to their own demise. There is no way Democrats can get the majority of the churches in their camp. Since Constantine’s alliance with early Catholics, churches have aligned with the Right Wing. Blind obedience, authoritarianism, money and power. It’s a Republican lock.
If Rand Paul is opposed to religion’s tax emempt status, that is one issue he is right about. For example, We would all pay lower property taxes if churches paid their fair share of Property taxes.
The government should provide social welfare directly. Not through churches. With few exceptions, Churches are defacto Republican campaign HQ.
Unfortunately, Democrats have mishandled the whole thing. Clinton did Dole’s Welfare Cuts. We’re all Christians now.
Seems that an ad doing a reenactment of the alleged Aqua Buddha interlude would have been even MORE effective.
Rand Paul hyperventilating and resorting to the same ol’ “man up” tactic of the rest of the bully Rethugs.
Grow up. Stop with the playground tactics, Rethugs. And Tweety.
They should put all these characters together. Rand has his tied-up coed with the Aqua Buddha Bong. Christine ODonnell is with them eating meatballs on a satanic altar. Have the Nazi guy there. Palladino can have his mistress. And the Alaska Tea Party guy will be handcuffing people, with his brownshirt militia thugs. Oh yes the World Wide Wresting lady could be barking like a dog. This could be a comedy Tee Vee hit show.
What a train wreck this ad is. Rand Paul was practically the only Republican a Kentucky Democrat could beat this cycle, but I’m sure this will seal the deal for Paul.
This reminds me of nothing so much as Elizabeth Dole’s “godless” ad from 2008. Candidates should realize ads like this are just entirely too dangerous.
[scratches head] Wait, what?
I guess that’s why I’m no longer a Democrat. They are not even competent at finding issues to properly demagogue.
Hey, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. If Conway had done something like this in his college days Rand would have been ALL OVER IT! Although I really don’t give a sh** about Dems anymore, I’m glad to see them coming out scrapping and using R’s own dirty tricks against them.
Progs, Dems, Lefties have all got to get over this namby-pamby Marquess of Queensbury rules mindset. Things are getting real spooky and we need fighters.
Who cares if Conway gets tough with him or not? He basically center-right as opposed to Rand Paul being on the right on the economy. He’s for the Bush tax cut for the wealthy, against climate change legislation, and says he would’ve voted for the Iraq war (see here). Why do any of you give a shit whether he wins or not?
I was really surprised that the Progressive Change Campaign Committee is backing him so much, I thought the point was to stand for progressives, not moderate Republicans disguised as conservadems. Tax cuts for the wealthy, yeah, super progressive.
And what’s the deal with denouncing someone for doing something strange in the past? I thought it was conservatives who say everyone should live according to the same values. It’s pretty sad that the only way Dems can get rough-and-tumble with the Rethugs is by saying that they’re more family value-ish and traditional.
I leave you with the final words of the Nation article I linked to above: “It’s like the Republican primary never ended, in a way. There are still two Republicans fighting it out: one young, native-born, rich and (this time) a handsome lawyer, and one a quirky outsider pushing economic fundamentalism. We know how that race turned out the first time.”
I’ll bet.
Just watched the debate clip. I think this Conway guy looks pretty sharp. Eventual presidential timber?
Your comment just proves that any three people can see the same thing from three different perspectives. I found Paul’s response much worse. People like him have no business being in government. We’ll see how the voters feel, in a few weeks.
Yeah, I know how you feel. But at least Conway seems to have come out 4-square against cuts to SS and Medi-Care. Could be a throway lie. I dunno. But, remember, it’s friggin’ Kentucky. You can’t be Abbie Hoffman in a state like that. Recipe for Blue-doggism? Probably, but you can never tell. FDR was pretty conservative and the times (and his experiences) changed him.
The only problem I have with the ad is Conway invoking faith based initiatives as though those are a GOOD thing. Other than that, Paul has never denied doing any of that and the only reason he’s pissed about it is because he’s being called out for his hypocrisy. The Democrats that have a problem with it should stfu and watch and learn.
I think you are givng the voters of Kentucky WAY too much credit. I bet it works.
Oops. Sorry Demi, I intended my response at 24 for John @ 15.
Maybe so. I didn’t like it when Meg Whitman pulled the whole Shame on you attitude with Jerry Brown. I think, and this is just my purview, that it’s even more embarrassing for a guy to pull that foot stomping.
Oh. Well, then disregard my #26. I see what happened. :)
Well that’s the Blue Dogs’ copout, right? I represent (insert red state here) so I can’t be progressive. I read a post here a while back about Yarmuth calling out the President for being too moderate, so I don’t think all southern Dems have to be this way.
I agree that it’s awesome he’s against social security cuts because that might be the big issue after the election. But this guy is no FDR. Can you see him railing against the monied interests that run this country?
Don’t know much about Conway, but I’ve heard and read much about Paul.
And yet, my being from Arizona, and our Second Rule, and that being among Native Americans and Chicanos, is to “Don’t take shit from anyone, and most of all, don’t take someone else’s beer bottle.”
To wit, Conway got tired of Paul’s crappola, and decided to take the gloves off. And that’s what I like about “fighters” especially when the braided ears stand at attention. Obviously, Conway has braided ears.
Jaango
I am beginning to think I stumbled into a Daily Kos blog…
Frank33,
Explain yourself?
Jaango
Since you ask, I have to say your comments and posts are generally great. But some comments are way too wimpy and defensive during the LAST two weeks of a campaign. There is the obvious lack of a strong national D Party not being led by Tim Kaine. Here we have a few comments similar to DK. Do not fight. That is the White House attitude also.
And D-Day is a great writer, but I will disagree.
The Tea Party should be called out because they are dangerous, racist and fascist.
You actually sound more like a dKos kind of person in blindly supporting Democrats whether they are progressives or basically center-righties. Yes, please call out the Tea Party for being racist, fascist, and fundamentally opposed to social justice. But that’s not what Conway is doing. It’s pretty tough to call out somebody for standing for the wealthy and corporations when you do nearly as much. He’s basically just saying Rand is a weirdo. Fine, do that, if Rand can’t take it he shouldn’t dish it. But it’s pretty telling that all Conway can muster is “this guy is weird” instead of “this guy is a reactionary that wants to take away your Medicare, cut taxes for the wealthy, and deregulate corporations even more than Bush.”
I agree. I’m with Jaango on this one. I no longer consider myself a Democrat, but hey: whatever works. All this taking the purist approach is a load of bunkum anymore. Take the gloves off and get in and fight. Seems like Conway had enough and treated Paul to some tough “medicine.” As some commented, all Paul had to do with laugh it off & talk about the follies of youth.
Sure it was a risk on Conway’s part. So what? Politics is risky business. I would prefer a world where politics weren’t like this, but they are. They’re like this pretty much everywhere; in fact, are often dirtier and nastier in other countries (ever listened to British Parliament when they’re debating something controversial???).
So: go conway. That said: yet another corporate hack. I’m still willing, though, to see a T-party nutcase called out for what Paul is: a hack and a fraud and a dolt (imo of course).
FYI … I understand that the American Indian, Buddhist (e.g. an ongoing Christian-Buddhist monk dialogue and East Indian (e.g. Hindu Temple of Kentucky) communities are present– although more in the background– around/in Louisville and Lexington. The serious foodie activities of the culinary colleges in both towns lighten and liven things up as well. I’ll let Kentuckian Joan Osborne shed a little light on some these other aspects via her “Country Western” Qawwali hit, “One of Us.”
Hey, we’re all for being aggressive. But we’re not partisans on this site. I’m criticizing this ad because I don’t think it works, even in Kentucky. Lizzy Dole’s godless ad didn’t play in North Carolina, so I fail to see why Aqua Buddha will work in Kentucky. There’s already been plenty of backlash from what I’ve seen.
Plus, how is it progressive to hit Rand Paul for being secular? Putting that aside and going back to political tactics, isn’t it a colossal blunder to shift the discussion away from Paul’s extreme views on Social Security and Medicare? Rand would much rather play the Christian martyr 2 weeks out than explain those positions.
Liddy Dole does not equal Jack Conway and Kay Hagan is not Rand Paul.
Paul has already stepped in it with his call to set a Medicare deductible of $2k then deny it even though it’s on video. He’s on record as saying the drug problems (meth especially) in a lot of the state are not that much of a problem and should be handled “locally” rather than with Fed money.
These are just two examples of Paul stepping in it.
Edit: The aqua buddha ad just helps push Paul further away from folks who might consider voting for him.
Where in this ad does Conway call out Paul for being a Tea Party nut that wants to dismantle domestic government programs? Nowhere, he’s just saying he’s weird, I fail to see how this amounts to getting tough with the Rethugs.
What I find a bit odd is that Baylor is a Baptist College and that having an organization that mocks other students for their religious beliefs is essentially biting the hand that feeds you.It would be like having an anti-Catholic club at Notre Dame.
Then again there are Republican and Libertarian clubs at most state-funded colleges…and if the policies they advocate were implemented the members would be seeking out private schools that charge four times as much. So there is no accounting for rationality amongst some of these folks.
What a baby. Get your own blog then.
Whatever it takes to keep Psycho Rand out of the Senate is fine. I have no idea if this will work. I’m not a Christian and not a Kentuckian. But if this IS what motivates voters to dump Randy, and not all the other garbage he stands for, it says something awful about the state.
Gosh, I didn’t realize that the Republican primaries were still going on.
I don’t like the ad but have to say that it is Mission Accomplished getting media attention.
I hope Conway just downplays the ad and says that all he’s trying to do is get peoples attention about how crazy Paul is.
PS Just saw Rachel Maddow’s segment on Republican Campaign strategy using terms like No Big Government, No to Stimulus, no to Obamacare, and how this is just whitewash to the Real Issue.
The Republicans are EXTREMIST AND THEY ARE BRANDISHING GUNS.
This election is now not about Obama and his weakness. It’s front and center against Republican Extremism.
Get out and vote and if you don’t you’d better start thinking about getting a gun.
This is about him hypocritically claiming that he is a fervent Christian when he’s not. I have no problem with the ad at all.
Bruce, I could not agree with you more. What if the Connservatives showed ads of Barry in his dashiki, with a background audio of Rev. Wright ranting about 9/11 and pictures of planes flying into the Twin Towers.
The democrats have lowered themselves and are desperate. Pathetic.
Yeah crazy extremists with guns, let’s counter them with more Blanche Lincolns!
After years of neoliberalism, isn’t it utterly extreme to support the extension of MORE tax cuts for the wealthy like Conway and Paul. They’re both pro-wealthy extremists.
You think I like Conway or Blanche Lincoln. Lincoln’s in a ditch without a chance to win and the Dem’s have to live up to the fact that she never had a chance and they get a big zero for backing her.
Conway has a chance to beat Paul and that some accomplishment.
The main fight is to get Progressive in but right now it’s push back to the Republicans and their Teaparty nutjobs who want us to turn the clock back.
But hey let’s just click our heals three times.
Go Conway!
You assume way too much about my comment. I have NO problem with strong teevee ads that attack on the real issues.
What’s indefensible about Conway’s ad is that it is a naked appeal to religous bigotry and a wholly dishonest distortion of the facts.
Thank you.
As I tried to explain to Frank33, it is not the willingness to hit back hard that I find indefensible, its the appeal to religous prejudice and the dishonest conflation of factoids that is both objectionable and ultimately pathetic.