It is sometimes much easier to understand American elections if you look at it as a three party system instead of a two party system. While Republicans and Democrats tend to be the only two parties that win most elections, there is the informal “just stay home” third party which is often the top choice for many Americans and can end up tipping the balance in many elections. In many elections, easily one quarter or more of people who have voted at least once before will not go to the polls, a share of the vote that many parties in true multi-party democracies would envy. Tom Jensen at PPP found that the alternative choice of just staying home could cost Democrats control of the state legislature in North Carolina:
The Republican lead is coming not because folks who voted Democratic in 2008 are turning against the party, but because so many of them are planning to stay home. Only 6% of people who voted for Barack Obama now say they’re planning to vote Republican for the Legislature this year. That number is identical to the 6% of John McCain voters who express an intent to support Democrats. But those planning to vote this fall supported John McCain by 9 points in 2008, in contrast to Barack Obama’s actual narrow victory in the state. That massive enthusiasm gap is what has Republicans in a very strong position right now.
While Jensen is only looking at North Carolina, I suspect that we are seeing almost the exact same pattern elsewhere. Democrats aren’t losing this year because their former supporters have suddenly been convinced of the superiority of the Republican party platform. Democrats are losing because their former supporters are actively choosing the third option of simply not voting. Democrats’ real enemy, and competition for critical swing votes this November, isn’t the Republican party, it is the informal just stay home party.
If we had compulsory voting, a system that actually fined people for not voting, we would have a truer two party system. If everyone actually had to vote, the winner would the party that is least objectionable to the most voters. In that system, no matter how poorly both parties were viewed by a wide swath of the electorate, as long as one of the parties was seen as slightly less terrible, it would win.
But in the United States we don’t have compulsory voting. Voters have a choice besides Democrats and Republicans, and that is the fairly popular choice of simply not voting. Even if people think one party is marginally less terrible, that doesn’t mean they will actually go to the polls to vote for what they think is the just slightly less awful party.
I feel too often Democratic leaders fall into the dangerous trap of acting like we have perfect two party system. It leads to thinking such as, “It doesn’t matter if we don’t deliver for constituency X, the Republicans are even worse on the issue, so they have no other choice but to still vote for us.” This type of cynical thinking leads to nasty zero sum politics, but worst of all, it is just wrong. In fact, voters do have the third option of just staying home when they don’t like either of the two major parties. It is a popular choice in this country and growing even more popular this cycle among former Democratic voters.
I think if Democrats spend more of their time trying to win “swing votes” from their true competition this November, the just stay home party, and less time thinking they can pull of the nearly impossible task of actually flipping Republicans voters, they would fare much better.



131 Comments
The Democrats are going to put the Just Stay Home Party over the top with their “We don’t suck as much as the other guys” strategy. But I guess that’s really all they have. Idiots….
Too late, the time to start down that path was 2006 or at the latest 2008. Two months before an election any pretense of populism will trigger every bullshit detector.
Orrin Hatch wants to drug test people who get unemployment and other relief.
I think we should require that they vote.
American politics is much like watching the Scottish Premier League.
It’s either Celtic or Rangers.
No one else has a look in. And Scotland are crap when it comes to international football.
Maybe the unemployed should have to wear an armband of some kind. I can see brown shirts from my house.
i think we should drug test the house and senate
If Ds & Rs were unaware of Stay Homes, why would they bother about GOTV?
Used to be I imagine that one could just stay home b/c the other party wasn’t really too bad. Hell the repugs even had a few moderates. But that was before Reagan. No more. So the stay at homes are going to swing the election. I just hope they are happy with the people they elect. Need we say who?
Ding.
If there were a “none of the above” option that would require another election, and prohibit anyone losing to “none of the above” from running again, I’ll bet we’d see a much greater turnout.
Hey SD, got the brood in their jammies yet? Tell them Bob and I say “Howdy.”
i think we should drug
testthe house and senateHeh. Timely so I’ll diary pimp right now.
Can you imagine all of those wackaloons on pot? They would never get anything done.
oh wait………
Already read it and I feel for you and belch. Seems as if most of the work is done so maybe you can relax a bit. THanks for sharing with us.
Huh. So you endorse the “But we suck less!” strategy?
Baz is here sharing Pretzels,yes he is more careful than Chimpy
I’ll vote green party from now on, but I hope they become more viable in the future.
In the absence of a green party candidate, I’d sooner go to the polls to write in than stay home.
best of luck
As soon as someone comes forward who isn’t a lying sack of shit, I’ll be motivated to vote again. In other words, never.
Not to mention smarter, more articulate, and better looking. More qualified for office too. Pats and scritches to Baz, horsie, and the rest of the kids.
well put
ya need a strong stomach
Oh please, that’s getting really old.
One of the reasons I knew Jesse Ventura would win the 1998 governor’s race in Minnesota was because of his ability to get habitual non-voters to the polls. It wasn’t so much that he took votes from the existing parties — though he did do a bit of that — but that he increased the size of the voting cohort by bringing in tens of thousands of people who normally didn’t vote and who were curious about the former pro wrestler. (It helped that a) the state was in good shape, as was the rest of the nation, thanks to the Clinton Boom, and b) Jesse actually sounded sane much of the time.)
Of course, the reason he didn’t run for a second term was because by 2002, the boom had faded into the Bush Recession and his antics had overshadowed his achievements — the biggest of which was pushing light rail transit through the legislature.
thanks,horsey came back to pasture today,lets see gave him 2 fresh ears of corn for last 25 days…………g
Baz aint the sharpest knife in the drawer,but yes he has little boots beat
Yay for horsey!
The only way Democrats can win is by running LEFT.
Every time they choose to try to run to the right to appeal to centrists, a fat chunk of the base abandons them and they lose.
been a long haul,but he is much,much better,hoping hair grows back soon
That would really be great. I’d vote with a song in my heart instead of straggling in with my head low.
Excellent idea! Wish we could make that a reality.
How would you describe it? You’re blaming people who decide to not to vote for ‘electing’ Republicans? Isn’t that a bit like blaming Nader for Gore’s inability to convince the twelve percent of Florida Democrats who voted for Bush in 2000 to support him instead?
If they could do something dramatic, like another stimulus or fix the tax cut thing. But, sadly, they can’t even agree among themselves what to do. Same ole’ dems.
heh I would, but can’t stand the sight of my own blood.
Howdy back.
yes.
ha
You’re nothing if not consistent! Enjoy your election.
Even with those 12% of Dems voting for Bush, had Nader not been on the ballot in FL Shrub would never have become president.
The very day Coakley was crashing and burning in Massachusetts because hundreds of thousands of Democrats in arguably the bluest state in the country just stayed home, Obama was busily signing the Executive Order creating the Cat Food commission with Reid and Pelosi cheering him on. The Coakley defeat should have been a thunderous wake up call to pay attention to the base but instead Obama went the other direction. I don’t think anybody, let alone a whole White House, can be that disconnected. It had to be deliberate. Certainly there has been no retreat on the Cat Food commission since despite Simpson’s evil senile rants. So they have already seen that Democrats and independents are willing to bail on them. Yet they continue their deeply alienating agenda anyway. Nobody can say they weren’t warned. They just don’t apparently care.
“The only way Democrats can win is by running LEFT.”
The problem with democrats is not where they run but where they govern. The voters empowered them to govern to the left and instead we got republican lite. Republican lite hasn’t really worked better than republican hard right. Both choices are like taking slow poison, in the end you’re just as dead the only difference is how long it takes and how much you suffer along the way.
Here’s a thing:
Quit saying everywhere that Greens are Repub controlled. Claire is my neighbor, and I frequently run into her. She’s for real.
More to the point, who I’m going to vote for is quite surgical. DeGette doesn’t need my vote to be elected, and fuck Bennet. I am voting Dem for the Gov race, and on the Amendments; that’s a crazy story, but against “Personhood” and so forth.
I think honest leaders, if we had such a thing, might be able to get around that problem. Admitting they’d made a mistake, following by genuine actions to change things that are making life more difficult for us, would convince at least some people, I think. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t believe our current leaders if they told me the grass was green.
As we’ve already observed, all they have now is fear of The Other Guys, and right now that just doesn’t strike me as any scarier than what we’ve been through for the last four years.
bingo,next Nobel prize goes to you!
You’re making the same assumption as the Democrats, the very same assumption that Jon Walker challenges in the OP.
Well said.
But you can’t escape the consequences. If the dems don’t vote in Nevada, who wins? If the dems don’t vote in Alaska who wins? If the dems don’t come out for Grayson, who wins? In short if the dems don’t vote the default is probably a repug and maybe ones like Angle, Miller or Paul. At least in 2000, people came out and voted for Nader. Nader gave that election to Bush, no doubt about it. In truth, I doubt the dems can hold on to congress since things are now too bad and it may be too late. But I can’t throw in the towel.
No, I’m stating a fact, nothing more.
Nader, both in his book Crashing the Party, and on his website, states: “In the year 2000, exit polls reported that 25% of my voters would have voted for Bush, 38% would have voted for Gore and the rest would not have voted at all.”
During the time before we had compulsory education through high school, we had pretty good voter turnout. What happened?
the latest simpson thing on the vets is too much. O has to act.
Politicians need power to do what they want. It doesn’t matter what it is – if a politician has no power, he’s basically useless. The less power Obama and the other jackasses who are doing this have, the less effective they can be. Taking power from politicians, or giving it to them, is the only way we will matter. If Obama and Co. don’t wake up that’s happened, someone else gets the power.
So, while it may not change their minds, losing the House can have beneficial effects in the future.
So you KNOW then that folks who voted for Nader would have instead voted for Gore? Do you do Lotto numbers too?
Simpson’s the poster child for what the commission is about. To tell the truth, I’d rather have him stay there, unless the commission is either disbanded, or its mission curtailed to not include SS and Medicare.
Which should have been a thunderous wake up call to the base to start actually paying attention to what in the hell Obama’s doing. By the time enough people see it Obama will be into his second term.
See the addition to my 46.
I’m fascinated by your refusal to place the blame on bad candidates, and focus instead on folks who don’t like what those candidates have done. If that’s the kind of political system you’ve resigned yourself to, then you’ve already ‘thrown in the towel’.
Yeah, I get your drift. But he’s my poster child for an asshole and he has got to go.
I voted for Nader, but I would have voted for Bradley.
What do you mean by “bad”? Is sharron angle “bad”?
Wasn’t the fault of Nader or the people who voted for him. Gore ran a terrible campaign and still won. His legal team blew it.
If Gore had run a smarter campaign, including selecting a better VP it would not even have been close.
I’ve been advocating a none of the above option for awhile, but I like your addition.
It might need to be eased to for this office or for X years, just because of the media of lies and opportunity. But barring the rejected nominees for awhile is a fine idea.
Sadly, didn’t he choose his VP to help get the Jewish vote in Fl? Ole’ Joe is the gift that keeps on giving. Gore had trouble, no doubt, but the Nader vote gave us Bush. It’s just the way it is. I fault Nader for that one.
All WAR IS BASE ON DECEPTION!!! SUN TZU
The elites only mission is to keep the USA masses in a constant state of confusion.
Most americans believe that republicans love Reagan and Democrats love and follow FDR.
Few americans know the truth, that their govt has been hijack by the elites and now only serves their dreams and desires.
The elites love the idea of the third party, this only helps them maintain the status quo.
How many people think Obama is a real democrat? I don’t hear people in the streets of the USA saying Obama is new FDR. More like he is the new Hoover.
The question we must ask ourselves is how does Obama get to call himself a democrat, progressive, etc. when he is basically more conservative than Nixon, and loves Bob Dole Health Care Plan.
The tools that make this possible are listed below:
1. the corporate media not only tells the news it makes the news! (for months all of the corporate media has been screaming about how dems will lose in the fall, this is what the elites want, remember they own the so call liberal media)
2. news papers, news magazines, preach the same lies
Americans are easily brain washed
when you say New York Times people scream liberal (the NY Times likes Blanche Lincoln more than Halter)
when you say MSNBC people scream liberal ( this network thinks Social Security is going bank rupt, just like Fox News does)
when people say Democrat most think JFK, FDR, etc. ( Obama says he likes Reagan, He never said he liked FDR, and he picked Rahm to be his right hand man, the man that gave us NAFTA)
the biggest trick of all
is americans believe they have a choice? we don’t
the american politcal system is currently rig to benefit the top 2%, so if you stay home they win, if you vote they win!
IN ANY WAR! YOU MUST KNOW WHO YOUR ENEMIES ARE! TO WIN.
IF Van Jones, Elizabeth Warren, scream about Social Security being SAFE and SECURE, they would be attacked by the Media, it would be front page news! Van Jones and Elizbeth Warren would be call big LIARS!
Alan Simpson says Social Security is killing the USA, and he thinks it should be cut, the media ignores it. He is the Co-Chair of the Catfood Commission. Alan Simpson was picked by that super liberal name Obama. Laughing.
Progressives still think the games has rules? it doesn’t!
By any means necessary the Elites will fight to maintain the Status Quo. Period
Exit polls incorrectly identified John Kerry as the winner of the 2004 presidential election.
Yes, she is a ‘bad’ candidate. So is Reid, which is why folks like you are concerned that not enough Democrats or Democrat-inclined voters will show up to the polls.
I’m just going by the numbers. I got over the whys and wherefores a long time ago.
I voted for the FL Socialist Party candidate. Did not affect the outcome.
Yep.
“See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda.”
George W. Bush
May 24, 2005
Argue with Nader, they’re his numbers.
What truth was that? That angle who wants to do away with SS wins if I stay home? Spare me.
Respectfully disagree. Gore was determined to distance himself from his popular (in Dem circles) predecessor. Nader’s puny 3 percent should not have been a factor.
No need, someone else did:
http://www.prorev.com/green2000.htm
Geez, why are we disputing that? It is generally accepted that Nader pulled more votes from Gore than Bush.
So?
What is Harry Reid’s position on Obama’s Catfood Commission, the one that’s trying to do away with SS?
you remind me there was this thought of making yourself “pure” by distancing from Clinton and Ole Joe could help. But he also had the benefit of helping with the vote in Fl.
Somehow, a lot of ‘the Jewish vote’ in FL went to Pat Buchanan. Haha?
Lieberman was used owing to his public outrage about his granddaughter’s having to be exposed over the teevees to linguistic circumlocutions for blowjobs in the Oval Office. He was Mister Rectitude to offset Gore’s 8-year association with the impeached and ‘disgraced’ Clinton.
I’m not disputing anything. Subject stopped being important or relevant years ago, imo.
So… according to the poll analysis, as the title of the study suggests, “Nader [was] not responsible for Gore’s loss”.
Reid is NOT trying to do away with ss.
So he has come out against the Catfood Commission then? Source?
Gore had a terrible campaign team. Clearly the Lieberman gambit failed. Gore wasn’t exactly Mr. Charisma and adding Droopy Dog to the ticket wasn’t going to rev up the electorate.
Can you name a democrat you would vote for this year or is the answer just none? Are you a part of the Tea Party?
See my 76. I’m not really interested in blowing my time on something that cannot be proven by anybody. Good conversation while sitting around having a couple beers but that’s it. Ancient history that cannot tell us what the outcome of a similar situation would be today.
When you read me talking about how I know a bunch of left-wing kids who voted early in 2008 and don’t even know if they give a shit anymore because of no public option, that would be in NC. Personally, I’m going to vote straight ticket Democrat like I always do, but talking them into coming out is next to impossible.
Make no mistake about it; Obama and Dems haven’t been Republican lite or right lite, they’ve been hard right.
Bullshit. He’s in the bag as bad as Obama (and Pelosi). If Hairless gets re-elected he’ll have six years before he has to face the voters again. By then, he won’t care because he’ll be ready for retirement or a fat lobbying gig.
Rhetorically, Gore ran the type of campaign corporatist Democrats favored back then. He wasn’t long on charisma, but he had enough. Ironically, if he’d acted the way he’s acted since he gave up his political aspirations, I probably would have voted for him.
Picking Lieberman was just another symptom of the problem, I think. Lieberman wasn’t a whole lot different back then from the guy we tried to defeat in 2006, and many of us still loathe.
I wonder where we will see the most nonvoters, in a state like NC that tends to vote republican but is poorer or in a state like CA or CO that tend democratic but are wealthier. My guess will be that poorer states will have more non-voters. BTW, I highly recommend Frances Fox Piven and Richard Cloward’s 2000 book “Why Americans Still Don’t Vote: And Why Politicians Want It That Way”, in which they argue that in the USA, unlike almost all other parliamentary democracies, non-voters tend to be poorer and voters wealthier, which, among other things, explains the lack of a labor party in the USA.
When Gore hosted SNL a few months after the 2000 debacle it struck me that if he’d exhibited the same persona and sense of humor before the election the outcome might have been different. Throughout the campaign he affected the demeanor of a funeral director.
I understood why he did it. Al, Hillary, and others were bloody pissed that they had hitched their respective wagons to Bill and he dragged them through the muck. Too bad Gore wasn’t a better poker player. After the 1960 primary race LBJ absolutely loathed the Kennedys but he was able to keep it to himself and feign enthusiasm for the sake of the campaign.
I might vote for my congressional dems, might. I’m watching, if I don’t see anything I’m impressed by, then not.
I’m certainly never going to call myself a democrat again. Done that all my life.
But Gore did win the election part of the campaign. The outcomes were altered in real time, and the election was stolen. Had Gore received more votes than were counted for him everywhere – and we’ll never know how many votes were flipped – then the theft would have been greater than it was. Same thing happened against Kerry in 2004. Only if you steal and lose can anything happen to you. Man! Did you see how fast there were new US Attorneys everywhere? Justice isn’t fair or just; it’s discretionary.
Russ Feingold, I’d pretty confidently pull the lever (do they have levers in Wisconsin?) for him. Am I part of the Tea Party? I am not. I think an overwhelming majority of Tea Party enthusiasts are quite deluded.
spot on comment – I agree.
Yeah, that’s why I think it is unfair to scapegoat Florida Nader voters. Gore fucking won, he blew it after the fact.
Like Gore, Kerry ran an abysmal campaign. He nearly disappeared during the months between clinching the nomination and the convention. The war was going badly and he banked on the Bushies self-destructing. Bad choice, he should have been hammering them every day, instead he let them define the narrative. Like Gore, if Kerry had run a smarter campaign the election would not have been close enough for the Republicans to steal.
Oh, I’d probably also vote for Barbara Boxer. Leahy’s position on copyright issues chaps my ass, but the Congress is largely irrelevant on that issue so I’d probably vote for him.
Still waiting for that source on Reid’s opposition to the Catfood Commission, by the way.
The mid-terms don’t look good, but it’s not like the Dems are going to be in any worse shape than the Repubs are right now.
Of course that would depend upon the Dems being tough enough to block legislation and Obama being willing to uncap his veto pen.
It dawns on me now why so many folks are worried.
Take the long view. If we keep delivering these Dems re-election they’ll keep doing what they have done the last four years, namely dance with the republicans. The only way to get change is to change the Democratic Party by voting out the leadership by not showing up for them. A huge defeat for the Dems in November should be viewed positively. The Repugs will not be able to do anything that the Dems won’t let them do. Of course, the Dems seem to let the repugs do quite a bit, like go to war and pass tax cuts for the rich. So, who should the Dems blame for their loss? Allowing the current bunch of craven corporate sycophants to survive will only make change less feasible. In the short term it will be slightly more painful than it is now, but it will provide the catalyst to finally reject the Republican meme and move us toward a progressive revolution.
Yeah? You’re like agreeing with something I didn’t write or imply. I don’t buy the crap analysis about this one ran a bad campaign, or he didn’t buck up against the Swift Boaters, or his wife was too foreign and too rich. I’m saying that Gore got many many more votes than were counted for him nearly everywhere, and so did Kerry. The electronic voting software had been compromised before 1988 (there were indictments and trials!), and the votes were hacked in 1988. This isn’t conjecture. Read Ronnie Dugger’s reportage.
I should vote Republican. I can’t wait to see what a Republican House and possibly a Republican Senate will produce. I hope Obama goes along with them just to piss off progressives. Staying home will lead to the end of many social programs. Great idea!
So, the solution is to vote for either the Dem or the repug? As long as the two parties control the election process our votes will be as meaningless as the ones we cast for change in 2008. We didn’t get it, did we?
Sorry for any misunderstanding, alleged agreement withdrawn then. You can stew in your conspiracy theories all you like. Not a tinfoil hat man, myself.
What, no faith in the ability of the Dems to block legislation or for O to veto?
Exactly what are the Dems good for?
“I should vote Republican. I can’t wait to see what a Republican House and possibly a Republican Senate will produce. I hope Obama goes along with them just to piss off progressives. Staying home will lead to the end of many social programs. Great idea!”
Obama is currently doing that. Clap louder.
*yawn*
You should be screaming at the independents who voted Dem in 2008. They are the ones departing.
Apology accepted. Why not inform yourself instead of bandwagoning against evidence that’s contrary to your beliefs?
Kickin’ the Left, judging from the past couple years.
Because all your resentment and paranoia based on evidence you find credible will… make… no… difference. Do you think an official investigation is going to take place which will overturn the ’04 election result?
Also, you presume too much regarding what I might or might not believe. When you manage to get the Bush Admin prosecuted for well documented war crimes I might accept that we can accomplish something pertaining to previous rigged elections.
Let’s see, we know that the Republicans are for: ending Social, Security, and Medicare, Medicaid (and all forms of government funded or subsidized health care), war with Iran, the right for citizens to use their “second amendment remedies” if the politician they want doesn’t get elected, forcing women to have their rapist’s babies, ending the EPA, apologizing to BP for blaming them for the “natural disaster” oil spill, allowing anyone of Hispanic origin to be picked up and questioned about their citizenship status by the police, kangaroo trials for Obama for (???), repealing the 14th amendment …..
I DON’T HOPE THAT REPUBLICANS WIN!
It’s fine to be pissed off! I’m pissed off. But we can’t just throw a fit and storm off and watch the country dissolve. We have to — one more time — vote for the Democrats.
THEN! Right after the election, we have to stop whining and moaning and start a new party! We need to convince sitting Progressive Democrats that the TIME IS NOW to walk out of this party. The Democrats don’t represent us anymore. BUT we need to show true progressive politicians that we WILL back them.
If we don’t start a new party, we only have ourselves to blame for the horror that this country will inevitably become!
What ‘resentment’ are you referring to? Mine? I don’t even resent your mischaracterizations of what I post here. My only point was that the actual voting in 1988, 2000, and 2004 made no difference because the machines were hacked. Why would you mock me for what you yourself believe?
Broken.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-V8kYT1pvE
The problem with the two party system which has been fostered by the two parties by ballot access restrictions and other means, is that they end up as mirror images, each one trying to appeal to the others’ voters.
As a result, those voters who dislike either and both of the two look-alike parties stay home. Nobody represents their views.
So the system is broken.
Perhaps the difficulty in communication owes to your early adoption of a needlessly caustic tone. Example:
Attempts at clarification of previous comments tend to be futile when they contain barbs. Not suggesting that some of my replies did not follow suit.
Anyway, since we’re apparently in agreement, or not, I suppose we can put this subject to rest.
Wishing a pleasant evening to you, AitchD
Actually your point is different than the one I was making @87 (I have been arguing against lesser evilism here for some time). In fact I edited out a larger point there in the interest of not making everyone read a dissertation, but here it is: I think that if a viable third party on the left is available (I am registered Socialist of Florida, but there also is the Greens, etc.) it is better to vote for that candidate than to not vote at all. And a write in for a left candidate is second best. (My party isn’t running anyone and, interestingly, actually advocates lesser evilism which I will be ignoring so right now my idea is to write in “Someone Not Corporatist” for every office.) Why? Because no one will ever know why you or anyone else didn’t vote. Are you simply happy with the current system and so don’t see a need to change things? Are you a teabagger or someone else on the right? But if you vote (left) third party or write someone on the left in you let your displeasure with the D and R branches of the Republicrats be known. That is to say, use your vote strategically. It is too late to do better than that in the upcoming election, but I am strongly in favor of the formation of a progressive party before 2012.
Facts schmacts, your facts lack context. If Gore would’ve run a better campaign more of Nader’s voters would’ve voted for him, and if Gore had connected more with the voters then he would’ve picked up more Democrats who voted for Bush. I would suggest the truth is that some Democrats are still so angry about Nader ten years on they still can’t think beyond the tiny box that “blame Nader” presents.
Well, let’s make a worthwhile distinction: North Carolinians have elected a lot of Republicans to national office, but inside the state, the Democrats never lost hold during the aftermath of the Civil Rights Era. We are the last bastion of the original Democratic South, really, since Louisiana went wacky. Sure, we’ve juggled the legislature back and forth – but it’s because people are still jumping back and forth between parties here. Since the Civil War, we have mainly been a one-party state with a few hiccups here and there. Just come to Raleigh and check out the grandiose Dem HQ smack up against the legislature, while the Republicans get vandalized by anarcho-whatsits in their little converted bank outside of NCSU.
I suppose that’s what’s kept me sane as I deal with the national Democrats. In NC, the Democrats are still the best Republicans we can find – and the actual Republicans are plainly lunatics.
Funny, your point about NC democravens is almost exactly what Bill Maher said about the national democravens last year.
Reagan in the Aug 2001 budget reconciliation killed Federal mental health funding, so the social program killed this time round might again affect someone you know.
the Dems can’t block right wing judges when in the minority, and can’t pass moderate judges when in the majority (1 in 8 judgeships is now open).
They fear a filibuster but fear using that threat themselves.
The current Dems are rather ineffective resulting the same non-progressive government when they are in power as when they are out of power.
The third party – skip the vote – is getting more and more members – and will soon convert to a party to replace the Dems.
I don’t think the Dems are ineffective. They sell us out to please their corporate constituency and then use the the Repubs as an excuse. They know exactly what they are doing and do it well.
My remark was directed at a rather common lesser-evilist belief that the world is going to crash down if the Dems lose some seats. In other words, why are you so worried, can’t the Dems obstruct like the Repubs and can’t Obama veto their legislation? The implication being that the answer to those questions may be what is fueling their panic.
As to voting, my philosophy is this. Vote third-party or write-in. If there is a truly progressive Dem (in action and deed), vote for them. But not voting contributes to the perception of public apathy. If the Dems (and Repubs) see the disappearing vote going to a third alternative, maybe the message will be clearer. And maybe not, but at least you are doing something that makes it harder for them to deny.
The folks who blame Nader for electing Bush want a true two party system. A system that ONLY allows Democrats and Republicans on the ballot. Or they stupidly internalized the vilification of Nader by their tribal elders. I voted for Nader in 2000 from Louisiana. I thought then and still believe he was the best candidate on my ballot. I watched the criminal activities of the Republican Party in Florida with great interest. They were well on their way to stealing the election when the Supreme Court intervened and handed the oval office to Bush. Nader is an honest public servant who ran to the left of the corporate political duopoly that has since destroyed our country. I regret that he lost the election to the odious Democrats and Republicans.
How does anyone know if the Nader voters would have voted for Gore had Nader not been on the ballot? I know a few people who supported Nader, and they would never have voted for Gore.
Okay just saw your post about exit polls. I guess people in FL are different than people I know in PA.
Read the link below instead. Her post is inaccurate, even if the quote is coming from Nader himself. Also note as I did above that according to the exit polls in 2004, Kerry won the election.
http://www.prorev.com/green2000.htm
Democrats act like this because satisfying their progressive voter base means pissing off their corporatist fundraising base.
Fortunately, millions of Americans will have the option of voting Green this year (see the list of candidates at Green Party Watch). By voting Green, progressives can subvert the ready-made narrative of “Obama was too far to the radical left for America” and show that progressives are ready to support candidates that support their issues.
(and AitchD @109
Gentlemen! Gentlemen!
May I suggest that, if you were sitting across a table with a pitcher of beer between you, the insults might be more acceptable…if not, in fact, appreciated?
My job here in the Detroit area involves lots of drive time. I listen to progressive talk radio, and find it a good source for the distilled-to- the-essence message of the Democratic Party.
This is the Dems message for the fall elections reduced to one sentence: Glenn Beck – we’re against him.
This state was already on the ground and being pummeled when the ’08 crash hit. 35% of the citizens of Detroit are at or below the poverty level. Our industry and our jobs are gone.
Glenn Beck – we’re against him. Yeah, let’s see how that works out for the Democratic Party.
I’m for secession at this point…
http://www.vtcommons.org/
If there were a voting law with a fine for not voting, I wonder how many people would do as I would do in that case – cast my vote for the write in candidate ‘none of the above.’
What will you do if there is a fine for not voting and a prison term, in Yemen, for being a smart ass?
All this talk of compulsory voting ignores the option of 3rd party or write-ins.
Personally, I’ll be voting for a few good Dems, leaving the rest blank. I will not vote for Obama. Will you compel me to cast a vote for Kucinich, even if he isn’t running?
In our Primary, here in Arizona, only 25% (inclusive of Democrats, Republicans, Green, and Independents) voted. Consequently, 75% of the adults either stayed home, or stayed away. Consequently, this level of non-voters, cannot be addressed, at least for Democrats, since the Democrats are “self-satisfied” with this level of non-voters. To wit, the arch-conservatives in the Democratic Party agree with the arch-conservatives on the Right, and thusly,the Right claims their victories.
Jaango
How can one not have a little “cynical thinking” when politics are based on power and not principle (which, despite what others say, seems to be the defining quality of the tea party movement and the source of detest of the stay-at-home crowd).
Indeed, the oracle of all things cynical says of politics:
http://cynical.ws/definition/politics
n. The gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.