DNC Chair Tim Kaine has announced that Democrats will run on a platform of being the “results party”–a move that leaves me wondering whether it is stupid or simply the only choice for Democrats. . . because they can’t deny the fact that they fully control Washington. From Tim Kaine’s remarks:
At a time when many Americans doubted the capacity of government to tackle and solve big problems, we have shown that we are the Results Party. We act decisively to solve problems that confront Americans in their homes, businesses, schools and communities. And, most of what we have done has been in the face of Republican obstruction trying to protect a special interest status quo that has not worked for the American people. So, voters will have a clear choice between continued progress and a return to the failed policies that created the biggest period of economic decline since the Great Depression.
The “results” Kaine lists in his speech are pretty pathetic for a party with huge majorities in both chambers. Also, unfortunately for Democrats, their two biggest pieces of legislation in the last two years have been the stimulus action and the health care reform law. Both laws are currently unpopular, and therefore not the kind of “results” around which one can really expect to build a political campaign. To make matters worse, the health care reform law is a more a legislative achievement than a “result,” since very few people will actually get insurance as a result of the law before 2014. I would add student loan reform as a big accomplishment for the Democrats, one that had the added political benefit of sticking it to the big banks. But, for some reason, Democrats have spent very little time promoting this victory, and I doubt more than 25% of Americans even know about it.
The problem with running on a platform of results is that the results seem pretty meager and have left huge constituencies of the party with little to show for all the work they did to get Democrats elected. Many of the top goals of different Democratic-leaning groups are unrealized. Labor has not gotten EFCA. Latinos have not gotten immigration reform. The LGBT community still has not seen “don’t ask, don’t tell” stopped or ENDA passed. Environmentalists are waiting on a climate change bill that seems a longshot to pass, and might do more harm than good if it does. Even many health care reform advocates in the party feel betrayed because single payer was not even considered and the public option was unnecessarily dropped.
Kaine is correct that the economy is starting to turn around and the stock market has improved, but that still seems too little too late. Unless we start seeing a significant improvement in the unemployment situation, I doubt Democrats are going to get much support from voters because they improved the economy from terrible to just plain bad.
The only possible silver lining I see from the DNC’s party of results platform is that it might finally be an acknowledgment that blaming Senate Republican obstructionism simply will not work as a political issue. (Most Americans don’t even know that it takes 60 votes to overcome a filibuster.) It is just possible Democrats are getting that regular Americans will not accept excuses about parliamentary rules for why the Majority has failed deliver on their promises, so Democrats need to run on what they have actually achieved, instead of what the big, bad Senate Republicans won’t let them do.
One hopes deciding to run as the party of results might encourage Democrats to actually do everything in their power, including using reconciliation, to actually deliver on some real results. Somehow, though, I think the logical one-two punch of running as the party that gets results while using every tool at their disposal to deliver actual results for the American people will sadly be missing this election season.



118 Comments
The ‘results’ the Ds have gotten are the ones they want. The ones you list that they haven’t gotten are the ones they don’t want. And the corp media will not point out their lack of ‘success’ as you do, so there is some chance that the D propaganda will work, since there will be no lefty counterstory for the general public to read.
Modification to my 1: The one that seems most likely to harm the Ds is immigration reform, as the Latinos seem to be the group that is most organized to make a federal case out of it. We’ll see how many people show up for the May Day rallies, and how much press they get.
Democrats: You can depend on us to punch those dirty hippies.
You can add this as disappointment #327 on the list:
The “results” were not for the voters, they were for Wall Street.
My only regret is that I have only one bellyful of puke to spew, and there are two parties I’d like to spew it onto.
In fairness, Byrd/Shepard Hate Crimes Law, Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Lawsuit Law, Sonia Sotomayor, START 2, and, um….
Let’s see…under the Obama administration, congressional ratings have plunged – from 50 – 25%. The generic vote has switched from Democrats to Republicans. And they lost Ted Kennedy’s seat. All in a year!
That’s more than just results; it’s almost a miracle.
I can’t top that, especially this early in the morning. *g*
“… the results seem pretty meager and have left huge constituencies of the party with little to show…”
Exactly.
Sarah Asks, “How’s that hopey changey thing workin’ for ya?” and I have to answer, “Not too well.”
If I were a marketing professional, I would much prefer the contract to write the republican ads then the democratic ones.
good morning Jon and Firedogs,
I know when I think of dynamic, mad messaging skilz, I think of Tim Kaine -
uh Mr, Chairman – J-O-B-S
I will leave it to the historians among us to correct me if I am wrong. But I recall that during the Nixon and Carter administrations, both were running their respective congressional agendas and where the multiplicity of issues were being addressed. Take, for example, Nixon was running an approximate ten pieces of legislation simutaneously. Carter was running with six to eight and done simultaneously as well.
Now, my question is to the White House, and why the lack of running a variety of issues simultaneously? And as John Walker says, immigration, EFCA, Climate Change, “Don’t ssk, Don’t Tell”, and just three that could be accomplished quite easily. Or to use a sports metaphor, what’s the probability of a ‘full court press’ inflicted onto the Republicans by the White House and the Democratic leadership in Congress?
As such, why should they perceive that in a manner of ‘fear’ be fearful to being kicked in the shins by the Republicans?
And none of the anticipated issues to be addressed are even considered as collectively, an agenda that fall under my rubric for being “aggressively” Moderate for even being “left of center”.
And if your a sentient being capable of walking on two feet, having stones would be a good accompaniment to politics when you have control of both houses of Congress. And thus, my exasperation being expressed.
Jaango
Well, I know you can’t be all negative all the time, but I really really really hope that the Democratic election strategy also contains a healthy dollop of pointing at the Republicans and saying, “You want THOSE guys back in charge? They ran the country for eight years, ending two years ago. They can say whatever they want, but look at 2001-2009: if they get back in charge, THAT’s what they’re going to do.”
You forgot the two wars still raging. You mean dropping bombs and guided missiles on goat herders and they’re families doesn’t count as results?
DNC marketing matters less than whether enough of the “different Democratic-leaning groups” remember the conspicuous lack of results come election time. If labor, Latinos, LGBT groups, etc. vote for the Democrats in 2010 then the incongruity between what Kaine claims they have done and political realities don’t matter. 2010 and 2012 are truly the election cycles for voters to ‘put up, or shut up’ about the lack of action on the issues they care about most.
“In fairness, Byrd/Shepard Hate Crimes Law, Lilly Ledbetter Pay Equity Lawsuit Law, Sonia Sotomayor, START 2, and, um….”
While I support these examples philosophically, none of these is likely to ever have a direct impact on the quality of my life with the possible exception of the Sotomayor nomination (actual results pending). I fully expect to be disappointed by the next SCOTUS appointment.
Brown won in Mass. mostly because 800,000 Obama voters stayed home. With a health care bill that hs yet to help anybody and unemployment likely to remain in the 10% neighborhood, how is the “look what we accomplished” gambit going to bring the abstainers back to the polls.
Their political savvy is, and has been for quite a while, the shits. Absent Howard Dean, whom they loathe, do we really think the Democratic party and its expensive consultants could have gotten us those majorities? Did the DLC win the last two rounds of elections for us?
Really, though, what are they going to do that Obama isn’t already doing? Encourage offshore drilling? Giving Wall Street taxpayer money? Expanding the wars? Encroaching on civil liberties? I’m sorry, but I don’t see much difference between the two parties.
Another result: The droves of citizens, old and young, who have become so disappointed that they are saying they won’t vote in the next election(s).
Great job. Where’s that fist bump now?
I don’t know whether to laugh, cry, or throw up.
none of these is likely to ever have a direct impact on the quality of my life
These changes affect the quality of life for everyone who cares about freedom and justice for all.
Tim Kaine is an incompetent Rahm Emanuel wannabe. He likes the old DCCC chief’s “strategy” of conceding tough races and playing defense, despite, (or perhaps because of), it’s demonstrated multiple failures. It’s a damned shame when one cannot even reach the Rahm level. Bring back Howard Dean.
The Democratic Party loathes Dean precisely because he has no use for those expensive and always wrong consultants, who are only interested in maintaining the need for themselves and thus have a huge conflict of interest.
BTW, Are you the Glorfindel from Imladris or the one killed at Gondolin? ;-)
Most of the electorate in the U.S. has been so thoroughly indoctrinated they believe anything they are told. Nothing but marionettes. Perfect for maintaining the empire.
If results mean serving the interests of the wealthy elite while lying to the American public, then Obama and the Democrats have done a great job. In reality that’s all that matters when it comes to advancing political power.
You buy into an implicit false dichotomy: our completely D-controlled federal government had the choice between the half-loaf those (good, important) policies represent or nothing at all.
That’s bullshit. The completely D-controlled government could have done those things, AND given us real healthcare reform, AND repealed DADT AND gone in for financial reform with teeth. They didn’t do those things because they didn’t want to.
“These changes affect the quality of life for everyone who cares about freedom and justice for all.”
Agreed. But is it going to put stay-at-home voters back in the voting booth? Pardon my cynicism but which is more likely to get out the vote, altruism or selfishness?
I have to agree with a prior post: what is the difference between this admin and the previous one? Is there any difference?
Meh: from the coporations’ and Wall Street’s point of view, this Admin, as with the prior one, has been a rip-roaring success.
I’m no longer “satisfied” with the 0.000006% difference between Dems and Repubs. But most Dems don’t do their homework, so they’ll probably vote Dem in the next election, based on the lesser of two evils theory.
Meh. Tim Kaine? Who’s he? I mean seriously: does he ever crawl out from under whatever rock he’s hiding and speak in the light of day? What a waste of the space time continuum, but I guess the powers that be likey him.
I also don’t “get” why Congress anymore seems only able to do one thing at a time. I also question that, as does a prior post. I remember Congresses of yore (and not that long ago) handling numerous types of “big ticket” leg items. But these days, it’s like these clowns can’t walk and chew gum. Oh we worked so haaaaard with Lindsey on Climate change, but wham-o!!! now that mean old Arizona enacted immigration stuff, we here in Wash DC can only work on Immigration reform. WTF????? If Lindsey and the old boys network completed so much work on Climate change (I’m sure it stinks, but…), then why isn’t that making it’s way thru Congress, too? Seriously, this is just so dysfunctional, it’s beyond belief.
Congress does not even need to repeal DADT Obama could just promise as commander and chief to not enforce it. I suspect after 8 years a Republican elected president won’t dare changing things back and you could official get rid it as a small piece of a defense bill.
“..so they’ll probably vote Dem in the next election, based on the lesser of two evils theory.”
Certainly some will go for the “vote for us, we’re not quite as shitty as the other guys” gambit, but will it be enough?
Cynicism and selfishness negatively impacts my quality of life.
Obama prefers to have DADT “researched and investigated.” In other words give lip service but don’t do anything for fear of alienating the right wingers.
I keep hearing this crap about “massive” majorities. It isn’t “massive” if it isn’t fillibuster-proof in the Senate. Period.
Certainly not without something so big and in your face to get people up off their sofas. Virginians couldn’t be bothered to go vote, despite ample evidence of what O’Donnell is. How’s that working out for them?
Well that’s the question, isn’t it? Voters sat out the Brown election in MA, but it will be interesting to see what happens in November.
I definitely have Dem friends, though, who will march to the polls and vote Dem just because… They’re not all that thrilled with BHO and the current crop of losers in Congress, but they still believe the fairy tale that somehow, in some way, Dems are still “better than” Repubs.
In the main, they mostly wail at me: but what’re we gonna doooooo???? I keep saying: third party, babe, third party, third party…. send a message.
From the seating of Al Franken until the seating of Scott Brown, the Democratic caucus was filibuster proof but frittered that advantage away trying to please Republicans. Am I wrong?
Democrats: The Results Party – If You’re A Wall Street Banker or Healthcare Executive
Obama and the Democrats fiddled away for the past year while unemployment burned. They didn’t care because the average person didn’t have a corporate lobbyist for them to cut a backroom deal with.
With a bit of hope, the 2010 election cycle will be the beginning of the atonement for the Democratic Party. No longer will they be able to pay lip service to the liberal agenda, but cast it aside after the election has passed.
It is going to be painful, lots of seats will be lost (with luck). The next 2 to 6 years are going to be really bad. It is just when you can’t tell the difference between one party to the next, something has got to give.
Yes, it is sad the purge starts with the Democrats, but they have to come back in line. If they want to be Republicans, change parties.
I’ll be voting whatever 3rd party candidate is on the slate in my back corner of Texas. Neither the republicans or democrats have earned my vote.
And THAT, my friends, is the word of truth. Period.
When Luis Gutierrez suggested that Hispanics can stay home, my first reaction was that this idea has some merit and in doing so, would only prove Rhama-con correct. But after some serious thought, Hispanics know that “staying home” is only a luxury that cannot be afforded in the community, given that the potential ‘cost’ associated with such behavior would be monumental should the Republicans recapture either the House or the Senate.
And despite my angst and anger, I will have to drag my butt to the ballot box on election day, and even hold my nose given the lack of wealth of candidates available to me. And when the Mayor of Phoenix and his Democratic majority on the city council, refuse to participate in a court challenge of Republican legislation, I shake my head and wonder, are the Democrats too deep into their political insanity of fear and as such, lift their head up above the waterline?
Jaango
Yes, Margaret, with respect, I have to disagree. They didn’t fritter it away to please Republicans (specifically), but to please their corporate overlords. In the case of the obscenely wealthy oligarchs, imo terminologies such as Republcian and Democratic don’t really apply.
For me it is about overlords v. the peons, in this case.
I actually think they don’t care. In the NY Times article on the debt commission, Durbin — the second ranking member in the Senate is quoted as calling out “bleeding heart liberals” — “But Senator Richard J. Durbin of Illinois, the second-ranking Senate Democratic leader, denounced suggestions of an administration VAT plan as the “musings of right-wing cable shows.” He also admonished “bleeding heart liberals” to be open to program reductions to restore fiscal balance.”
No where does this wet noodle admonish war mongerers that they must be open to program reductions too — only us f-ing hippies.
Someone is delusional, Kaine or me. (ok, I admit, it’s me)
Just can’t see any spin, more spin, less spin or better spin being able to convince anyone that the D’s have a positive performance record this Congress.
hmmmm… I get what you’re saying, but with respect, I’m not really feeling the “love” from Democrats either. I’m still not sure that it would make any difference. But I do see that, for Hispanics, it’s difficult.
It’s a catch 22, ain’t it? And, it sux.
In theory you are correct but then there was Lincoln, Nelson and the Liebermonster (among other pseudodems).
Interesting that the dems were willing to force a real fillibuster over the Finance Bill but unwilling on HCR.
and that will break my heart jaango as we’ll then be in opposition. (I’m going third party)
Okay, yep I forgot to mention their true puppet masters. My oversight. :-)
And even after that they still could have gone nuclear and had plenty of room to spare, but if votes only came down to needing 51 instead of 60, they’d have to try a lot harder at lying and coming up with excuses. As it is now the Congressional Dems put on the dog-and-pony show in the House and then kill it off in the Senate with a combination of maintaining the undemocratic 60 vote requirement combined with having a Senate Democrat play the role of enemy du jure.
Well OK, I can list a concrete result of the Democratic Party.
Their fecklessness, lack of commitment to liberal and progressive principles, corporate suck-up-iness and constant ability to peel off just enough votes to allow the Republicans to do whatever they want regardless of whether the latter are in the majority or the minority caused me to leave the party in 2003, returning only briefly to work on the Howard Dean campaign.
Third party now.
I like the way the blog started off yesterday much more, with suggested solutions.
Somehow we have to quit getting caught up in the same old boxes, viewing the same old obstructionists or freak shows from afar and pretending they will ever come around.
Jon, what about taking some of your ideas (and Hugh’s) from yesterday morning… and writing our own bill(s), just like lobbyists do? Then we can spread them around while loudly presenting it to congresscritters…. particularly that damn progressive caucus.
Or creating a progressive contract (list) for America?
*** We could even ask other *parties* to sign onto individual items.. and color code them as Libertarian or Green endorsed.
They caucus with the Democrats. Isn’t the job of keeping the caucus together the majority leader’s job? The DINOs are a problem, yep but jellyfish Harry could have done a better job.
I would be disappointed in Durbin, but I gave up on the lot of them long ago. Yes, of course, it’s the middle and lower classes that have to feel the bight. Of course. Why should the obscenely wealthy have to give up one damn dime? Why inconvenience those who, in the fictional fairy tale, “create the nation’s wealth and jobs”????
Durbin’s got his from his wealthy overlords, so: eff the rest of us.
He’s not only giving the finger to the dfhs, he’s giving the finger to nearly all of his constituents. Let’s get real here. The so-called “liberals” or “progressives” are not all that hugely bleeding edge anymore. To me, it seems like, more and more, we’re just standing up to fight for a limited amount of scraps and bones. And for that, we get the finger from ALL of our pols… every single one of them.
What are we so-called “liberals” asking for here? Jobs? Keeping the social security funds that WE EARNED????? A reasonably working health care system that’s not a complete, naked rip off for the CEOs benefit???? Ending senseless, expensive wars that we were lied to about????? Regulations for Wall St and Banks that nearly bankrupted the ENTIRE PLANET???????
Honestly! THESE are considered some kind of HUGE “liberal” issues. Sorry, but they’re not all that “liberal.” They’re REAL problems that deserve REAL attention, and they inure to the benefit of all citizens.
ridiculous how these clowns have been bought off and arrogantly spout out such crap.
Of course! the democrats are on no hurry to change Senate rules and allowed what’s her name to run such a pathetic campaign in Massachusetts just so they wouldn’t have that filibuster proof majority. Now they can pretend to support Democratic goals while having a lame excuse not to be able to.
Lest not forget the students who are also recipients and afforded missile dodging practice
Ah, come on, Carol, you’re not really trying lol.
The Afghanistan ROTC program? What a grim place the world has become.
Good idea. You’re right.
One of my ideas is to raise the cap on Social Security deductions. If our corporate overlords have stolen the social security funds (I don’t know if they have. I hear and read conflicting stories about that), then why not raise the cap? It’s entirely regressive right now. Super wealthy people collect their soc sec, just like the rest of us. Raising the cap to be deducted up to at least $500,000 of earned income would solve most, if not all, of the alleged “problems” with social security.
Also how do we educate the population that social security is something that most of us EARNED?? It’s not an entitlement. I earned mine; I deserve to get it.
Next agenda item: raising the tax levels at the top to pre-Reagan levels. I get the tightening the belt need right now, but let’s have the wealthiest among us get back to paying their FAIR share.
Next agenda item: taxing hedge fund income at income tax levels. This really burns me up, but I’ll stop there.
Next agenda item: get out of all of these senseless expensive wars for no reason, and cut the military budget by at least 35%.
How do we push forward this agenda (for starters)??
“When Luis Gutierrez suggested that Hispanics can stay home, my first reaction was that this idea has some merit and in doing so, would only prove Rhama-con correct. But after some serious thought, Hispanics know that “staying home” is only a luxury that cannot be afforded in the community, given that the potential ‘cost’ associated with such behavior would be monumental should the Republicans recapture either the House or the Senate.
And despite my angst and anger, I will have to drag my butt to the ballot box on election day, and even hold my nose given the lack of wealth of candidates available to me.”
Actually you can’t afford not to take a hostile action. Once you’ve shown that you can be taken for granted, you will be taken for granted and ignored. Falling into line because of the lesser of two evils or whatever is precisely what causes politicians to give people a knife in the back. The more loyal a partisan that you are, the more it means that you can be ignored as your vote becomes increasingly worthless – nobody has to work to earn it and they can harm you repeatedly without fear of reprisal. To have a worthless vote means you must have a lot of luxuries to spare.
“Party of Results”???
I laughed out loud when I saw that last night. Total insanity and disconnect from reality. That they think they can sell this crap shows how far beyond redemption any of it is. Utterly morally and intellectually bankrupt. Bah.
“…but jellyfish Harry could have done a better job.”
You’re preaching to the choir.
But I suspect that Harry (and Barry and Nancy) did exactly the job his corporate masters paid him to do.
Many of the top goals of different Democratic-leaning groups are unrealized. Labor has not gotten EFCA. Latinos have not gotten immigration reform. The LGBT community still has not seen “don’t ask, don’t tell” stopped or ENDA passed. Environmentalists are waiting on a climate change bill that seems a longshot to pass, and might do more harm than good if it does. Even many health care reform advocates in the party feel betrayed because single payer was not even considered and the public option was unnecessarily dropped.
It’s startling to see women omitted from this list, since women in general and poor women in particular have been shafted at every turn. It is also odd to see that not a single commenter above mentioned this omission.
All good ideas, imo. As for a contract style… We “liberals” have to realize that our caucus has given us the shaft and get real loud/turn them around or dump them as loudly as we possibly can.
We also have to realize that most others in this country respond to authoritarianism… so we need that list… and we ned to somehow get very comfortable with claiming authority on the items (such as you mention) in that list.
I can’t imagine authoritatively yelling tax the rich! would not be both popular and necessary at this time.
They will make the Bush tax cuts permament, gut what little advances are in the HCR bill, appoint another John Roberts to the Supreme Court, bomb Iran and generally continue the campaign to debase and belittle the entire concept of the public good that has been going on for 30 years.
I’m all for challenging Obama from the left, but track the Republicans from Reagan to Bush to Palin and you can see that they’re only getting worse.
spanishinquisition,
I am reminded that back in the mid-sixties and seventies, Hispanics had a local alternative that was effective in certain geographical locations, given that political struggle was tantamount on taking on J. Edgar Hoover and his COINTEPRO, and not necessarily the Democratic Party. This political party was called the Raza Unida. The political perspective was not socialism or Marxism, but nationalism. And this was magnified when Hoover and his Cronys dropped the Plan de Aztlan, a nationalist document, into our political community. Thus, one form of nationalism addressing another form of nationalism. And Arizona’s latest piece of legislation is being viewed in a similar manner by the many that I have known for many years in the political arena.
Consequently, two perspectives, local and national and neither should be confused when applied.
Jaango
I’m thinking more Inner Party (corporate elite), Outer Party (politicians and corporate managers), and Proles (the rest of us).
Your idea of an authoritarian approach is intriguing, and you might be on to something. It does seem as if a large majority – and not only the rightwing, but also some on the left – respond more to authoritarianism or at least an authoritarian approach.
My concern right now is with social security. The powers that be are doing a darn good job a bamboozling a large portion of the population into believing it’s an entitlement, rather than something they earned, themselves.
Speaking authoritatively about this is really needed – it’s critical.
I think we have to work through viable third parties, such as the Greens and the Libertarians bc it’s clear that the Dems are worse than useless.
I’m willing to do what it takes, but I’m not sure where to go from here.
Despite the ranting here sometimes, I think that, collectively, there’s lots of good ideas and solutions that come up on blogs like this. This issue is how to put them into action and get them to manifest.
Another way to look at it; don’t disagree.
But only if his handlers want him to.
SideshowRob,
Our Good Bud, Jane Hamsher has suggested that we need a new “dialectic” and I have to agree with her. And where I quibble with her is that the Democratic Party needs to redefine itself from the Party of Justice and to the Party of Equality. And why?
Arizona is expected to become a Majority Minority State in 2015, but this will be reaffirmed in the 2020 Census. If so, Arizona’s Democrats will have to permit the Right to continue to “self-marginalize” itself or as conservatives are currently calling it “epistemic closure” and this behavior can be reinforced for more gerrymandering and and placing the Right into a tighter geographical configeration. Thus, with Arizona, Texas, New Mexico and California leading for this “new” dialectic, the Lake and the Fire Pups can lead the way as well. As such, “mi casa es su casa.” The Welcome Mat is readily available.
Jaango
I’m all for challenging Obama from the left, but track the Republicans from Reagan to Bush to Palin and you can see that they’re only getting worse.
Really? I’m only in my mid forties but I think it’s the same old corporatists, the same old bigots, the same old war mongering party of Archie Bunker. Perhaps what’s changed most is the power and influence of money in the process.
“Perception is reality.” – Marshall McLuhan
That was the Dems plan from the get-go, serve corporate America and depict it as populism. If you can’t dazzle ‘em with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.
Spin baby, spin!
The Rs are doomed to become the minority party if they continue this way. They are so narrow that they are even eating their own by demanding that their candidates be “pure.” They are getting so tightly wound that they are not going to be able to reach out to anyone. Works for me.
Hey That’s my line :-)
Rahm, Rubin, Tidy Bowl Tim and Big Business Ben can have Dems run on stacking the deficit commission with a gang of vultures who want to rob the poor to pay the rich with cuts to Social Security and Medicare, while preserving Bush cuts for the rich.
Oh, excuse me, the commission report won’t come until after the election.
I just can’t see myself doing that. If I have a decent third party candidate, that is who I will be voting for. I have no problem if this gives the Republicans seats back in the house or the senate because there really isn’t much going on now except the overlords’ work so there will be no difference which party sits a majority. I’ll take that if I can send a message that the Dems need to stop being the Republicans of the 70′s.
Jaango, your comment seems unrelated to mine – or to the thread, really.
OH! A progressive contract for America! LOVE this idea!
.
I actually vomit sometimes Margaret from this stuff. I joined a professional organization (Association of Old Crows – aoc.org) while still in the service that has several outreaches including readiness, competency, advocating etc. Included with my membership is a monthly publication, Journal of Electronic Defense. So thru the years my knowledge and awareness has stayed somewhat current.
We are using these weapons contrary to the method that they were designed. They’re suppose to be for conducting a war, to be used in combat with a another army, or at least against Identifiable Bad People.
Think I’m going to be sick again.
Also my M.O., looks like we’ll have to share… :)
And in my forgetfulness within my prior post, Jane Hamsher is to be commended for her intuitive political skills as well as her for foresight. Thus, my Kudos.
And as a closing, I am reminded that we have accorded “status” to be well above “citizenship”. Consequently, wealth or an elitist class has been placed far above “citizenship”. So, when I read that American expats residing in Europe and other assorted places, are renouncing their citizenship, makes me depressed. And walking away from the political struggle for the establishing an ever-expanding ‘heart’ in the Democratic Party, is depressing as hell too and not acceptable.
Jaango
Will you be taking part in the planned demonstration? I wish I could.
Thanks for your contributions jaango, they are making a positive difference.
SideshowRob,
The notional for “epistemic closure” comes to us from the scribblings of a Libertarian and known as Julian Sanchez. He is catching hell from the Right.
And more so, with respect to your comment from above and to this thread, if you don’t know or understand what the opposition is addressing, crafting a preventive maintenance plan is all for naught. Or if there is no Plan B, the political gutter is situated below your feet.
Jaango
Well then your pretty much hosed with that logic. You have to convince enough liberals to vote for a War Criminal who doesn’t haven’t their best interests on the bottom of his shoes much less anywhere else. From my point of view, I can get all of same stuff with Palin, but without feeling like a total tool because I voted third party. So maybe unlike 2000 you can find enough people to buy into the evil of two lessers party system we seem to have. Maybe your 11th dimension chess works out for the better lesser evil. You’ll be able to justify the deaths of thousands of innocent people because a fraction more would have died under what ever puppet the Repubs offer up. Either way we’ll suffer together. The difference being one of us will fight it every step of the way while the other will trade his soul for an illusion.
I expect to attend.
I was at the state capitol this past weekend, and I inadvertently became neglectful in not providing the opportunity for these school students to make themselves heard on the internet. Students from 18 high schools took days off to attend the vigil, and I’m sure they too have paid the price for having to do their make-up work while absent.
Jaango
Spare me the dramatics. Both of us will work as hard as we can for what we want, then on Election Day one of us will take the best deal on offer and go back to work improving it the next day, and the other can sit at home and bask in their awesomeness.
All this energy wasted on the Democrats could be redirected into a third party movement that would knee cap the Dems every election, so they’d have to listen to the hirsute hippies. Every other strategy has already failed, as we have seen with Obummer.
With all due respect and more than you are showing me, you are talking at me and not to me. I know exactly what epistemic closure is and where it came from, but that has nothing – and I mean zero – to do with Jon Walker’s post that lists constituencies the president’s tossed under the bus and omits women.
I think this election will be the big test for “Rahmboism”, the idea that Dems should elect GOPers and call them “Blue Dogs” or “New Democrats” to expand their majorities and then pursue a corporate agenda that results in massive $$ contributions to party coffers. The assumption behind this thinking is that true liberals can be bullied into supporting a corporate agenda and that voters will continue to vote for Dems, no matter what they do, because “Dems are better than GOPers”. This assumption has been absolutely correct thus far as we’ve seen so-called progressives in Congress cave again and again, openly betraying every principle they claim to stand for. And in November, the test of the second assumption comes – can enough voters be propagandized into voting against the big, bad GOPers to maintain the Dem majorities in Congress?
Frankly, I hope every Blue Dog and many New Dems lose their seats. Decisively. Just to send the message that they are not wanted in the Democratic Party. And hopefully the survivors will get the message. I will not be voting for my current Dem Rep because she is a fawning coward with no principles, but I will vote for my Dem Senator. And let the chips fall where they may.
Even Americans aren’t that stupid.
Sometimes former and current Democrats need to “blow off steam” over what they see daily as the corruption of the Democratic party by those who supposedly represent them in Washington D.C. (White House and Congress).
As RoyalOak stated, a “progressive contract for America” would be a great idea and something with which we could build a third party around. I tend to believe that most “progressives” and “liberals” believe in basic humanitarian rights of people and common sense “good”. Since the Democratic AND Republican parties are completely compromised by corporations and the wealthy elite, we need a party which represents the citizens first. Should this contract be broad based or specific in nature?
Senator Bernie Sanders is an Independent (third party)…Jesse Ventura was a governor of Minnesota elected from the “reform party”. Just two examples. I still believe the majority of the citizens in this country are decent human beings who want the best for each other. A party which places the interests of citizens first and follows up on it with action would do well. That USED to be the Democratic party but…no more. Let’s recapture those principles within a new party.
I am from the redest state in the union, Oklahoma, and we have only one very very purple Democrat in our congressional deligation. Our only consolation (as liberals) is that he helps Democrats stay in the majority.
In this day and time thats the best your going to get from this inbred tea bagging state.
I agree third party is the only way, short of insurrection. I believe it needs to be centrist in nature, to be able to get the numbers needed. Extremists and activists on both ends of the political spectrum must be willing to compromise some pet principles to get there. A consensus platform is more in accord with democratic principles, anyway. But, a centrist administration would be an immediate vast improvement over what we get under the present setup.
We must not eat our own children. Ralph Nader gave us George W, another 3rd party will give us his brother Jeb. How is that going to help anyone?
No, that is a complete myth that Ralph Nader gave us President Bush. The SUPREME COURTS decision gave us President Bush.
If history is any guide, by pouring sh#tloads of money into someone’s campaign coffers. That seems to be the only thing that gets attention anymore.
I would counter that the DNC, the Dems and AL Gore gave us George Bush
(doesn’t anyone remember Bill Clinton crushing Poppy?)
The election would never gone to the Supreem Farce if not for Nader!
‘Cause this time the result will really be different?
Please read the following:
Dispelling the Myth of Election 2000:
Did Nader Cost Gore the Election?
Wow. Just like DKos without that annoying orange color.
That argument has always struck me a way to complain about another party’s registered voters not voting for your candidate, a dodge of how many registered Democrats voted for Bush, and a convenient way to ignore massive disenfranchisement in Florida.
Where’s OldFatGuy when you really need him and his list …
You knuckel heads can analize it any way you want, but you take Nader out of the mix and we would never had the horror that was W. Bush. Put that in your myth and smoke it.
The “Young Politicians of America” have the right idea:
The Third Party Myth
continued from above….
Nader had the right to run, just like everybody else. Where do you get the right to deny him that right? I think you lose this argument, when all the relevant facts are considered. You seem bent on ignoring the ones that don’t support your preferred conclusion.
A lot of you are saying there is little difference between the parties. Well, I’m reading all of these comments about Obama and I’m seeing little difference between this FireDogLake site and, let’s say, Freedom Works. It’s not just criticism of him I’m seeing, I’m seeing hate and disdain. I guess you wanted Obama to have Utopia created by the second week of his term. The corporatists have so entrenched themselves in this system that a sledgehammer would do no good to break it down. A small chisel, or maybe water erosion, is what is needed. And, IMHO, it’s amazing what Obama has accomplished with that chisel he is using. And, unless you’ve had blinders on, the erosion is beginning to take hold. Give the man a break, at least once in awhile. He really is on our side.
I saw Nader speak in Minnesota about 30 years ago and he was an arrogant egotist then. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had his suits tailored to look like they do. But I never though he was a collaborator with the right-wing until 2000. Most of his campaign funds were from Republicans, and he gladly accepted every dime of it. Then, on the day after the election, he tried to block a recount, saying all or nothing should be recounted. He then disappeared and was not heard from until months later. He could have pushed his supporters to join in the fight for a fair recount, but no dice. He did exactly what the right-wing wanted him to do. So yes, he does hold some responsibility for the Bush presidency, and has never accepted any of such. He has actually bragged about it. The Green Party later rightfully disowned him. Nader is only for Nader.
With friends like that, who needs enemas?
Nader earned the right to have his ego. He dedicated his life to defending real people against corporate greed, and accomplished more in that regard than ANY Democratic politician has in our lifetime.
Okay, fine, if you believe he is on your side so be it. But please be aware that others do not agree with you. I didn’t expect Utopia at any time in his term–I’ve always thought he was nothing more than a consummate campaigner, a chameleon temporarily taking on the coloring of whatever group could advance his political career.
So, if he isn’t on our side then we’ve lost. And, unlike the past where technology wouldn’t allow such a permanent corporate dictatorship to last for very long, now they can control everything and it’s over. Let me cling to one last hope, otherwise, our children are screwed, and we will have the thousand-year Reich. But if I’m right, and we on the left destroy Obama because of our humorless, closed-minded ways of thinking, we are just as much at fault as anybody in the corporate class. I’m amazed that we on the left, while criticizing the media as being corporate-controlled, still accept as gospel their trashing of Obama. Don’t listen to the corporate-controlled media, they will do everything in their power to serve their corporate sugar-daddies. And we will be the fools. Okay, we might deserve what is to come because of our political purity, but our children don’t.
I don’t listen to the corporate media for truth, only to hear what the enemy is thinking. I watch Obama’s actions, and they always deliver exactly what the corps want, with tiny crumbs at best for the people who believed in him and got him elected. It does you no good to keep believing in him as he works against your interests, you are just being an enabler. And he wants and needs many millions like you.
PEOPLE vs, BIG CORPORATIONS. That’s where the battle line is.
never let the simplification blind you to the complexity. People vs. Corporations is a big piece of the chess game but not the only one.
Not the only one, no, but great as an organizing principle and a slogan for mobilizing the as-yet-unaware. Helluva lot better than this right v. left, Dems v. Reps BULLSHIT we’ve all been living on for decades. I’m more aware of the complexities than most people, Jon, and fully aware of the mindfuckery involved in thinking, despite all the available evidence, that we can get the Dems to represent regular people as opposed to the corporate overlords who fully intend to milk this country dry and own the future of the entire planet.