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This is some serious bad news for Democrats from Gallup. For the first time in nearly two decades, the Democratic party now polls a net unfavorability–54% of registered voters have an unfavorable view of the Democratic Party, while only 41% of voters have a favorable view. This is a huge–and potentially devastating–swing for Democrats over the last few months.
In the past twenty years, Democrats have not had a statistically significant net unfavorable rating. Only back in 2006 did more voters briefly hold an unfavorable view of the party, but that was well within the margin of error. Clearly, the American people have soured on the Democratic Party in a big way. The people meant to be directing the political operations and outreach to maintain popular support for the party have been failing miserably.
The Republican party’s favorability ratings have increased somewhat during the last few months, but registered voters still have a net negative view of the party that is probably lingering from the George W. Bush years. Only 42% of voters view the Republican Party favorably, while 51% view the party unfavorably. This means both parties favorable numbers are well below their recent long-term norms.
It is impressive that in our two-party system, we currently have both major parties with a majority of registered voters having an unfavorable view of them. Assuming a prefect split, only 83% of voters have a favorable opinion of either major top party they are expecting to vote for.
100 Comments
Let me be the first one to say it: this is because the Democratic party is not behaving progressively enough, nor is it showing enough leadership.
Excellent news! Hopefully the 16% of unfavorables will vote for anyone but the two wings of the Elite Party. It is only through crises of legitimacy that the Elite Party can be moved to so much as pause its harvest of the average Joe.
Assuming a perfectly equal split between the two existing parties, and assuming those unfavorables vote for themselves instead of for the team, 16% is almost halfway to parity.
I think it is worse than that. They promised things and did not deliver. I don’t think it matter so much how progressive what their promise are but mainly that they have not done their jobs.
This post is a bit misleading. According to another graph at the Gallop link the Democratic Party still has an 85% approval rating among registered Democrats, down from a high of 93% in June of last year. You only get the 41% approval by averaging that with the 8% approval (of the Democratic Party) by registered Republicans.
Probably more significant is that the favorability rating by independents has dropped from 47% one year ago to 30% at present.
“The people meant to be directing the political operations and outreach to maintain popular support for the party have been failing miserably.”
You seem to be saying that the spin machine is not working well enough. Perhaps the citizenry has seen past the spin and tasted the shit sandwich the dems have been serving up.
The dems have visibly and without remorse sold their principles to the high bidder. Without clear set of basic principles to stand on is it any wonder that they are viewed unfavorably?
“Vote for us, we are a bunch of spineless liars ready to sell our vote to the highest bidder. But remember: we are not quite as bad as the other guys.”
[answering ratfood @ 4]
I don’t find that terribly misleading. The rating has fallen among all three populations. It’s clearly not doing well. If the progressive organizations that Obama has intimidated into being quiet were honest in their coverage of the issues, the rating among Democrats would probably be worse.
There’s also the question of who considers himself a Democrat to be considered. How much has that changed in the last nine months? I doubt the ranks are swelling.
Independents don’t like Republican policies when asked. What they DO like is some backbone. Wimpy just doesn’t fly in US politics.
I thought it was (not important but) interesting that half again as many registered Democrats (12%) have a favorable view of the Republican Party compared to 8% of registered Republicans who have a favorable view of the Democratic Party.
The people meant to be
directing the political operations and outreachrunning on the party platform and achieving those goals to maintain popular support for the party have been failing miserably.Fixed.
Basically, the Democratic Party deserves a far higher disapproval rating than it apparently has now because the party is utterly corrupt and sold out at worst and ineffectual at best at serving the broad public interest.
Both parties are mafia-like organizations that seek centralized power and control for the elites at the top as first priorities. Both parties are utterly beholden to plutocratic and other special interests most of which have nothing to do with the needs for good governance and enhancing the well-being of the broad public.
This poll, in other words, is good news. It shows that people may be catching on, or, at least, that people may not understand much but they are alienated. Either situation is good and well-deserved by the Democrats.
41% vs. 42% Bipartisanship Mission Accomplished!!
I dunno, the way they screwed the public on health care was kind of gutsy. The underlying assumption must be that we’re dumb enough to buy spin over substance. Certainly worked in orange quarters, among others.
Way to go Rhamabama. Perfect own O’goal!
Now f… off and [edited by mod].
I have zero doubt that the November woodshedding of the Democrats will be spun as the emergence of the TeaParty as a political force, and the MSM will be awash in stories about Obama and the Dems being “too liberal” and overreaching. Obama will probably give a wonderful, inspiring speech about the will of the people speaking, and he’ll promise to work more with the Republican party.
What have we learned class? Progressives lose when we win, and we lose when we lose. It’s how the system is set up to work.
I know how the Democrat (sic) party can fix this.
“Tax cuts, defense buildup and gettin’ gubnint off the backs of the Amurrican people by getting rid of all them dang regulations. You know…take the shackles off of business…More free enterprise…”
Hey, I’m just here to help.
I’m actually a little shocked that 85% of registered Dems still approve of the party. Then again, from the fact that they registered in the first place (something I would never do) I gather their approval is not based solely on performance.
85% of registered Dems still approve of the party.
Number doesn’t smell right to me…
Wolf Blitzer, et al, will explain this phenomenon as a case of the Democrats not being sufficiently conservative. A “strategic airstrike” on Iran will boost Dems approval.
That is the exact opposite of the truth, of course.
Recall that the Public clamored for a public option and drug reimportation. Instead we got mandated purchase of health insurance from Health Insurance Monopolies.
That, continued war, bank bailouts with no help for the middle class, no jobs, no rule of law for banksters and Bushco, is what killed the Dem poll numbers.
The Dems and Obama are liars.
At this point, wrt the November woodshedding, I just look forward to all the frowny-faced Democrat officials handed their hats. The party’s officials have failed to deliver on the big populist reform, and have instead walked all over the party’s grassroots activists and base voters. The Democrats were given great power and two majorities in Congress to help lead the nation towards recovery and reform after the catastrophe of the Bush years. They’ve taken their mandate and power for granted and shown themselves as self-serving politicians and, again, a mafia-like power-driven party. They deserve to spend a generation in the wilderness. If only there was a way both Democrats and Republicans could be forced to live together in the wilderness.
And yet so little third party resistance!
According to the graph at the Gallop page.
Actually 85% seems consistent with the number of “progressives” who joyfully bent over to pass the Senate bill.
Please vote green. Both parties are bad.
Perhaps many alienated by rightist officials and media-visible figures like Rahm etc have not made the jump towards seeing the party as a failed edifice. These voters are still in the party box.
that is why they are called Legacy Parties, because when people finally get a new slate of choices, they will avoid the failed legacy options.
Actually 85% seems consistent with the number of “progressives” who joyfully bent over to pass the Senate bill.
Good point. I had a spell of wishful thinking, I’m afraid…
Let’s hear it for whatever group of asshat Dems decided the entire party needed to move right during the Raygun era. Way to go, guys! Right on the mark with that decision! We need another party or we need Green Party candidates who are actually viable. People talking about working locally to get more progressives into office and working from that point – great idea but it’ll be decades to work and by then most of those low level progressives will be greedy, corrupted asshat Dems just like the rest. We need new laws in this country – strident laws about fair elections, campaign finance, the retirement packages for elected officials (that are tuly no longer sustainable in this economy), enforceable laws with dire consequences for betraying the public trust….
I keep saying that if a coin falls into the sewer, both sides of that coin come out shitty. Hey, I don’t want Republicans back in charge again but I keep hoping that the Democrats will give me a reason to support them. So far, third party it is.
I’m still a registered Democrat. Nobody called me for my opinion.
Florida is a closed primary state. I want to be able to vote against all incumbent Democrats. Then vote for green candidates if any are in the general.
In other polling numbers…
They’ve seen that neither party objects to them dying for a mistake.
I suspect many of the Democrats who still “approve” of the party aren’t exactly gung ho about it….thus the lagging far behind the GOP in voting intensity polling.
Amazing how well even low info folks know what’s going on.
The way that supercharged-cretin Marco “Hairhat” Rubio is shellacing The Crist Cretin in the polls, is portentous for Democrats. Suntan Crist is erroneously thought of as a moderate Rethug/Rethug lite or same as Blue Dog Corporate Demorat.
Obama, laying out the horseshit wide and deep….
*shakes fist weakly*
That is because of a systematic election law problem. If you want effective third parties you will first need to push for the election reforms that can make them more viable like proportional representative and instant runoff voting to end the spoiler problem.
Yep, the parties might not be good at governance but they know how to protect their turf.
Just to make something clear. Voters do not vote for parties, they vote for candidates.
There are a lot of anti-gubmint rednecks that are sympathetic to (and inspired by) the gun-toting tea bagger movement as promulgated day and nite on tv.
Anti-gubmint idjits always count in the unfavorable column. Low info – yes. Know what’s going on – no.
Every time I go to a restaurant, I hear some asshole holding forth on the the tea bagger movement or quoting Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck or Billo.
Never fails.
I wonder if it isn’t a lot worse? People that have watched the demo’s go from having a supermajority and promising to actually fix the country have seen nothing but excuses. We would be seeing 90% favor with independents, and 40% favor with republican voters if they had done what they were told to by the people. We see the president and his minions ignoring all the important issues to us. He talks while the banks steal the foreclose on the lives of the middle class, get paid for it by bailouts and insurance policies they purchased predicting our failure because they had the game rigged. He does nothing except pretend. He has people that were by their own account, responsible for the financial collapse, in the very offices that need outsiders to independently verify fact. He doesn’t give a damn. No more than George the Idiot.
I won’t vote for them. I won’t waste my vote again. Time appears to be right to have a real independent win the presidency easily in 2012. I won’t vote for another politician for president again, or governor. They have to have a real job first and this has to be a sideline.
Kids, food poisoning, expense, teabaggers… my list of reasons for not going to restaurants grows longer and longer.
The election laws favor parties that can turn out enough people to get someone filed. The issue third parties have is two-fold — (1) turning out enough voters in the general election to win; (2) convincing voters that if they turn out, the third party can win instead of being a spoiler. Both of these can be overcome with the right candidate; see how Bernie Sanders did it.
Most third parties fail because they are not as representative of the majority of people as they think they are. For example, if you cannot turn out around 150,000 voters, you cannot win a seat in Congress. And forget trying to win a Senate seat in California unless you can turn out millions of voters.
If you cannot turn out 10,000 or 30,000 or less signatures to get on the ballot, you are not likely to turn out the necessary numbers to win.
I know it is impractical but I’ve said for a long time that wanting the job should automatically disqualify candidates from holding office.
In the cesspool of national politics only the biggest, most offensive turds rise to the top.
You are correct. That’s why most voters in Florida register as Independent. They are not savvy enough to figure out which party (in theory) best suits their worldview. They, therefore, have no power in influencing primaries where the best candidate could potentially be elected. They are in a self-imposed blackout. They argue that they “vote for the man* – not the party”.
*They usually say the word “man” – not candidate.
That, too, is an illusion. Since both parties are promising you neoliberalism (and thus certain death), what remains to be seen is whether or not people will wake up from the idea that the difference between the two parties is a difference which makes a difference, and dissolve one of the two parties before it’s too late to do something about abrupt climate change. Remember, the Whig Party didn’t survive past 1856 because back then people weren’t making excuses. The structure of majoritarian politics would otherwise have kept it in place to this day — its members dissolved it anyway.
People register as unaffiliated (there is an Independent Party sometimes) because they don’t want people to know their political loyalties. Among those some register that way to avoid voting in primaries. Others think that they have to do this in order to vote split-ticket.
Outside of today’s Republican Party, it has always been difficult to figure out which party suits a worldview because until the modern conservative movement, American parties have not been organized in terms of worldview (or ideology). And the Democratic Party is not organized that way today, which is part of progressives’ frustration with the fact that one party is highly ideological and the other does not counterbalance that.
Yes, folks in Republican majority areas would say “man”.
there is no spoiler problem, this is a myth.
vote for the party that represents your beliefs, what a concept.
if you believe the Leader can execute your fellow citizens without judicial or any other restraint, you can vote Democrat, or Republican. if you find this notion abhorrent, and contrary to centuries of law and custom, then you have to vote for someone else.
I am confident most people are in the latter camp, and will find a way to make their wishes known, red-herring of electoral reform notwithstanding.
you have to go through the demopublicans to get election reform. Better to spoil them and scare them, or preferably to replace them! Spoiling isn’t necessarily bad, you just need to have a spine to punch them back even if it hurts your fist!
Heh. I never hear such conversations at restaurants. In Manhattan, that would be unthinkable, and New Paltz restaurants are frequented mostly by DFHs. I live in lefty bubbles, hoooray. (Well, you’d hear stock mkt conversations in NYC & hunting conversations in NP, but that’s not the same as what you’re talking about.)
You do realize this means that the Democratic leadership, incapable of recognizing the writing on the wall, will redouble their efforts to “move to the center” and will by 2012 be somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun. The Republicans, unable to move any further right than they already have and desperately needing something to oppose, will espouse more and more liberal views which they will assure their supporters are the “new conservatism”.
Obama, Rahm, Reid and Pelosi sold out the Democrats to the Corporate Oligarchs and screwed the people.
If we wanted to cement Corporate Oligarchic control over health insurance (we must pay more for less) and prescription drugs (we must overpay), we would have voted Republican.
Democrats deserve to and will lose in November 2010.
I’m with Margaret. The dominant impressions of the Dems through the Healthcare debacle were 1), secretlly writing bills at behest of industry (Baucus et al.), and 2) spinelessly caving on everything they declared loudlly they either would or wouldn’t do (progressives).
People in this country respect people who stand up for something, even if they don’t respect the something. And the Dems again and again crumbled. It wasn’t just us who were disgusted by this.
I don’t suppose there’s any hope that the utter failures like Rahm and Van Hollen and the other Dccc types will be booted out. You would think that this would be a wake up call, but I doubt it, too.
You need to get out more. You probably don’t have to travel far to run into the concentration of Fox fans in New York state.
Or you could drive to Florida and stop in local cafes in small towns (some have really good food, others not so much) along the way to hear the local conversation. Reminder, don’t obviously choke on your coffee at what you hear. And a rental car without New York plates might be helpful as well. ;)
When can we dump Rahm and bring back Dean?
But but but, I don’t want to “get out more” in your sense. I’m content to hear about such conversations second hand. Even my upstate relatives & HS classmates wouldn’t hold the conversations you refer to, at least the HS classmates who show up to alum events.
This is good news. Both Parties suck to the max. The lumpen masses are waking up.
it would have interesting to see polling on one specific reply that the ‘O’ had when asked about the ‘process’ being used to pass HCR.
I don’t know if any else caught that, his reply to Brett whatever at faux was “I don’t spend alot of time worrying about the procedural rules …”
That shit went over really well
I think the problem may lay one pay grade up
Indeed, splendid news! If we consider that 50% of the population doesn’t vote at all, 2/3 of the population now favors someone other than from these two criminal parties. Now that is an unbeatable majority. How to harness it?
This year is not analogous to ’80 but I’d like to share an experience.
I chose to take the stage at our DFL county convention (Minnesota), I was the chair of platform committee and served on a couple more committees, was also a delegate to the district convention.
If you remember ’80, Inflation and Interest rates were both near 20%.
It was apparent to Everyone except the party that Jimmy and Fritz were not going to get a 2nd Term. So I took to the stage, addressed the convention and simply questioned that, did anyone really think they were electable?
I had to leave the stage, the booing and screamed epithets didn’t stop until I walked off. After walking off the stage, county chair and co-chair came up and stated point blank, I was in the wrong building.
I embrace loyalty, but really really dislike ignorance and losers.
So, the democrats are viewed less favorably because “The people meant to be directing the political operations and outreach to maintain popular support for the party have been failing miserably,” and “voters still have a net negative view of the (Republican) party that is probably lingering from the George W. Bush years.”
Thus, one would conclude, the onslaught of negativism and obstructionism on the right, and the constant criticism and carping regarding Obama by progressives don’t have much to do with the public’s opinions.
Please blame me. That will fix everything !
Democrats they’d screw up a wet dream.
notice the string pullers are most always a step ahead. They had the obama fraud in place well before people knew it was a scam. Geitner ,paulson and company were in place to steal the trillions before it was apparent how corrupt they were. The list goes on and on. How anyone has faith in this mess is beyond me. What happens when they have gone too far and taken too much? That’s a rhetorical question. I bet they have a plan for us.
A question I’m asking myself, do I want to know ahead of time, what it is
Great catch, J.W. & fdl.
This is NOT rocket science…
The Neo-Cons (the, let’s be clear, “Israel uber alles” Neo-Cons) like Uncle Lanny, who Jane so smashingly called out & exposed on the Ed show, are practically WALLOWING in their autocratic, which is to say “DICTATORIAL,” control of BOTH parties.
The Repubs can NOT woo the Tea-Partiers, because the Repubs REFUSE to GO AFTER THE BIG BANKS, much less demand an accounting for our Bailout trillions $$.
It is _almost_ fun to watch the Tea-Partiers furiously scratch about for a fightin’ issue with teeth, with bite, with substance, KNOWING that the “major corporate media” (also OWNED by the Neo-Con banksters) will NEVER give an OUNCE of air-time to the massive frauds & felonies on Wall Street that are at the root of EVERYONE’s angst & anger.
(Of course, it isn’t really fun to watch the Tea-Partiers FRUSTRATION… the DESPICABLE “mainstream” media keeps directing their resentment & hatred towards WOMEN, MONORITIES, and SCAPEGOATS, (perfect example the NYT, WashPost, Time, CNN, Fox, & etc. HIT-JOB on ACORN) and just about everyone NOT responsible for the Financial Frauds & economic meltdown, it is only “amusing” in watching the WingNuts BE MANIPULATED by Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, & etc., who of course are all taking THEIR talking points from AEI & Heritage Foundation, which is to say… the Big Wall Street banksters.)
And the saddest part is, THE DEMOCRATS are NO better than the HATE-MONGERING Righty agitators & demagogues…
It ain’t Rush Limbaugh & Glen Beck GIVING AWAY that TEN to TWENTY TRILLION dollars $$ of taxpayer-extorted “BAILOUTS”
http://www.sitemason.com/files/jTx8ys/bailouttally022010.pdf
(without so much as a damn receipt, much less an I.O.U.) – it is NANCY PELOSI & Barack Obama and Rahm Emanuel’s AIPAC/Neo-Con toadies in the senate who are DISHING OUT that INFLATIONARY “force Taxpayer to PAY the INTEREST, on the g.d. banksters’ own bailouts!” cross of fiat money.
Jon: For future reference, I have no idea what “Assuming a prefect split, only 83% of voters have a favorable opinion of either major top party they are expecting to vote for,” means.
And the math is wrong.
Because they didn’t produce what they promised. What they have shown is that there is a National Strategic Interests Party the wants us in Iraq and Afghanistan for as long as possible for us to establish dominance however ludicrous the idea may be.
They endorsed the National Insurance Coverage program, the keeping of Guantanamo open, the Patriot Act, including the Taliban with al Queda as enemies and on and on as a bipartisan long term program that cannot be challenged. Just like Carter, Ford, Clinton promised to deliver on UFO’s until they were elected and the Presidential pixie dust was sprinkled all over them. So if you donate it is just to the same side but different people get the perks of office for awhile and all the spinmeisters, consultants, lobbyists etc make a good living too.
As for the lies of war they juist keep on coming, disnformation, and using us as eltite cannon fodder to pay the bills and get the scars of battle while the multinational corporations skirt right around all the taxes.
LOL :)
Well, I wish it would. But, your non sequitur is not an argument, or at least a valid one.
Considering for most of the past twenty the GOP controlled Congress, and 2006 was the year Dems regained control of it, I’d guess this fav/unfav rating doesn’t say or mean much about what happens in actual elections.
Thank You, seems FDL’ers wanna complain and give opinion instead of just saying you have had enough. I’m not quite ready to go “Green” on Jerry Brown but clearly if his campaign doesn’t step up to the plate I might have to reconsider.
I’m not quite ready to throw the Progressive Caucus under the bus yet either, but we can get rid of most of the Conservative Democrats or strengthen the Progressives by adding Green Party candidates to pull the party to the far Left of the debate.
The Progressives can be of some use here still. We need to make sure their stance comes from the far Left of the debate and that the compromise is the center Left.
Why not a 3rd part the main parties have failed us?
When did Democrats have sweeping wins in the House and Senate, oh that right 2006 and 2008.
It’s a Gallup poll, what do you expect ? They have never been Right except in their political leanings.
Wanna bet !
CNN/Research Corporation poll March 25-28 2010
Unfavorable for Republicans is 63%.
In the same poll Democrats favor-ability rating is 42% and it’s a measly 36% for Republicans.
The poll that counts will happen next November and I believe the Tea Baggers, Birthers, Deathers and the GOP
will be in for a even bigger surprise than the ones handed to them in 2006 and 2008.
If Gov. Dean had any say in major policies during this year we would have had the most progressive policies after LBJ and the base would have been really energized right now. I think thats why the MSM keeps on talking about scream episode which nobody really cares about to reduce his appeal in Democrats. What matters at the end is not how good or bad a speech is but how progressive the policies implemented especially tax wise which will shape how our egalitarian our society will be tomorrow.
To keep my conscience clear I will vote Green Party till Democratic Party reforms itself and then I will reconsider.
Why was it “string pullers” some people have short memories.
I clearly remember having a debate at a table, in a hostel in Frankfurt, Germany, the summer of 2007 –
I was talking to a research doctor who was on vacation and she mentioned Bill Richardson should be the Democratic candidate and I said Dennis Kucinich but he’s too far to the left of the debate to get elected. I thought Obama stood a chance but only if White America could stand up to the nonsense that was bound to come up during the campaign, as the GOP is too immature not to use Race as a fear tactic.
Obama talked a good game but lacked substance. But then we were forced to support him as the wind was behind his back and Clinton had squandered their lead in the court of public opinion.
This is all water under the bridge I think we all know how he got into office. I still say the main problem is Congress this is where the policy debate is started, if the debate moves far left and they tell the President that’s where the policy is going to stay, he has no choice but to sign it.
Do you REALLY think if the Congress had said we had 217 votes for Single Payer Health Care in the House and 60 Votes for it in the Senate that we would have the Federal version of Romney-care to deal with and try and “fix”?
Another problem is social/cultural, let’s face it the middle of country is a problem otherwise Thomas Frank wouldn’t have written a book called “What’s The Matter With Kansas” and then followed it up with a very good Documentary. I say that because the “Tea Party” has largely no impact on California politics. Enough Dems stayed home in Mass to allow Scott Brown to squeeze through and the Tea Party is claiming victory and the media is trying to sell to America that the Dems have a real problem because they are pushing too hard to the Left; Bullsh*t!
Building another party from the ground up is hard work and will take awhile to see results but to be honest, the Tea Party didn’t really get started until 2008, so I don’t see why we can’t drum up Green Party support in time for 2010 and for sure by 2012.
I don’t understand why anyone would vote for the Greens when the only effect would be to help elect the EXTREME LUNATIC RIGHT. You might as well vote Libertarian for all the good it will do. Neither will be elected to anything.
People should vote for progress in the direction they really want to go in even if they can’t get the immediate change they would prefer.
I understand the frustration and I agree with the Progressive Cause but I wouldn’t cut my own throat because I didn’t get my way.
It looks for all the World to be childish.
BTW I like Howard Dean, then and now.
Not fair to bogart, please share whatever it is that you’re smoking
I totally agree, I think the GOP is in for a shock. We will confirm that its mostly a REGIONAL party at best and almost wholly taken over by the Ultra Right Wing at worst which will lead to moderate Republicans abandoning them in droves permanently.
You can not win National elections polling in the low 30′s and self-described Republicans are in the mid 20′s…
And while this will be a long hot Summer I don’t see anything happening that would allow the Democrats to loose control of either branch.
Look at the REAL facts. Yes Republicans won two Governors Seats and One Senate Seat since 2008. Since 2008 Democrats have won Two Congressional seats one that Republicans had held since the Civil War in special elections and a Al Franken in a recount. Democrats sent THREE to Washington while Republicans sent only one. I don’t think that’s doing too bad. I’ll take 3 to 1 for my side any day. And I’ll laugh at the Republican Polls and I’ll laugh at the extremes of both sides because they will nullify each other.
Hate to say you are dreaming, but you are dreaming. You are really out of touch with the broad public. Just as the Dem’s are.
Maybe all your friends feel that way, but the momentum is not moving the Dem’s way at all. It is not just one poll.
The main problem is EASY to see. The Democrats ignored the public–whether progressives or just John Q with HCR. The public on BOTH sides of the issue were unhappy with it. Those supporting only did so because it was better than nothing. And, it had one great feature–no pre-existing conditions.
As the French King discovered in the 1790′s, when you go against the people or think you are too good for the average Joe, the people eventually toss you out on your rear. They always do, as Hugo is going to find out one fine day.
Didn’t get our way?
I take you back to late 2008 when Paulsen came running to Bush talking about he needed 700 Million to bail out the Financial System because it was going to bring the country to a grinding halt.
In a brief sign that Congress was actually LISTENING, the House voted NO on the Bailout.
It was only after some arm twisting and the Democrats sensing victory in the Election that all the Dems caved and voted for the Bail Out, that we’re now stuck with at 14+ Trillion and counting.
Now is that sour grapes?
We clearly wanted Single Payer Health Care, HR676. Obama on purpose put it in the hands of Conservative Democrats and then cut back-room deals with Bill Tauzin, etc and letting the Industry write the Senate bill we are stuck with as the House bill as long as it had a public option was not going to get voted on in the Senate.
Is that sour grapes?
Now we wait for them to botch The Jobs bill, Energy and finally Transportation. They will not get the unemployment rate under 9% until 2012 at the very least, many are saying we won’t see full recovery until 2015 if not longer and you wanna keep current tax laws in place???
The time is now, we can’t afford another 3 years of the first year.
I like your way of thinking. Keep going. It is much easier to blind side someone than have them see it coming.
There is no difference between Republican and Democrat policies right now which have moved to the center which is where the corporate welfare position currently stands.
Pure conservative or Pure Progressive if analyze is public welfare oriented and the sad thing is both of the parties do not want to do this right now. Reason is not that they are bad legislators in my opinion but corporate funding to the parties for the election through lobbyists.
Green Party is one of the few third parties which is viable and also has the self-imposed restraint in party charter of not taking corporate donations. If we have Green Party Reps and one Green Party senator it will provide healthy competition and act as a catalyst to force these two major parties to shift to their original party positions which will benefit public or else these parties will cease to exist long term.
Pre-Existing Condition was the only great feature and the Health Insurance Industry is already trying to find ways around it????
I agree that these baseless law suits by largely Republican AG’s will go down in flames.
But there was no such thing as making HCR too good. If you destroyed the Employee Based System which is one of Dylan’s rants and replaced it with Medicare For All, would people really be that outraged?
If you made Medicare For All too cheap, many companies would just dump you onto the Government, not bat an eye lash and stop providing Health Care to its employees.
Why would I be daydreaming? Didn’t Obama largely come out of nowhere?
Totally agree with your reasoning. Building third party from scratch is tough unless it has some notable figure starting it like Gov Dean for progressives or Rep. Ron Paul for conservatives.
For me who is in-line with democratic philosophy Green party is the way to go to create competition for Democratic party to reform itself if it wants to survive long-term and work for public welfare.
Thank You…
We have already use Thom Hartmann’s tactic of moving the party progressive from the inside, its largely hasn’t worked and the problem areas are the non-urban parts of the country and “Bible Belt”.
I’m glad Stupak stepped down saying “Mission Accomplished” on HCR, what a joke, he held up his vote for this BS?
When Newt is talking we’re moving the country into a Socialist, Secular position, I would agree if I could stop laughing long enough. He’s not even being honest. If this country was Secular people like Stupak wouldn’t have been holding up the debate with his Pro Life stance. As I’ve said before, they are not having these discussions in Western Europe and they have large Christian and Catholic constituencies, even Germany has the Christian Democratic Party and they are not talking about repealing the right the choose.
In my opinion Individual Mandates for Private Corporations for doing nothing sets a bad precedent, is un-american, unconstitutional and needs to go. I am sure Republican AGs will succeed on this front and might be extremely successful at the elections if they make this an issue. I think they are on the right side of the debate on this issue.
Gov Dean is in position to be on the far left because he’s not running for an office. The problem clearly is Money in Campaigns so until that is solved, its going to be a rough and tumble with Cable News largely calling the shots.
Jessie Ventura would make a ideal Green Party candidate, not sure you could talk him into running. If we had a B-actor as President we can’t do any worst than a ex-Green Beret and WWF/WWE wrestler.
Do you really believe that ?
That’s like saying you know that Al Gore would have been as bad as Bush.
I hope you know that would be absurd. Thank Nader and the Greens for that one.
You’re kidding right !
I haven’t seen their convention on TV. I don’t have a Green Party Congressman, Senator, not even at the State Level. which State has a Green Party Governor ? The Green Party is NOT viable although I truly wish they were.
What good would it do to have one Green Party Senator if you lose the White House ,Senate and Congress to achieve it. It would be a tragedy of epic proportions and the country might not survive another episode like we experienced under Bush.
I agree with your comment that the root cause of all the problems is money in campaigns. They cannot reform themselves because lobbyists will never let them do it since it affects their livelihood. It has to come from outside. I am sure Green Party with clean background of no corporate contributions in party charter will bring in this change.
In my opinion presidency from third party is tough unless the whole economy really collapses. So it is not realistic. Realistic goal is getting one senator from Green Party elected and couple of Reps from Green party elected. All the good people in both of the majority parties will use this situation as an excuse to switch to public welfare agenda or else if the party does not allow it then these two majority parties will not survive long term.
Here is the Green party web site:
http://www.gp.org/index.php
Take a look. Don’t give in to fearmongering and defeatism.
If anyone thinks that things will ever get better under the dems, please take a look at Matt Taibbi’s latest article on Jefferson County and how our municipalities are being bankrupted by our elected leaders and the banks.
http://www.trueslant/matttaibbi
Economic injustice is increasing exponentially in the US. We can’t even get a crumb from the dems, let alone a bone. Something has to give.
Republican party provided us good Presidents like Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt who really fought not in the speech sense for doing things right. Democrats too had great ones like the likes of Thomas Jefferson, FDR and LBJ who fought for doing things right.
It is not a party thing that Republicans produce bad presidents or good presidents. Right now both parties are not working for public welfare.
I can cite total lack of accountability for the trillions of dollars mess which children of our country need to clean-up, keeping quiet when harmful imports from totalitarian regimes are hampering long-term health of our children who are also our future work-force, strange situation where for 700 billion it needs three pages request and typical bill is 3000 pages, job-less recovery which is strange word to me … list goes on & on.
Woops, try this URL for Taibbi
http://trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2010/04/08/jefferson-county-keiser-report-2/
This is the sad state of the affairs right now. Some people defend this kind of behavior saying it was the public officials fault for signing documents where millions of people suffer horribly and the whole city slowly dis-integrates for no fault of theirs so that couple of people can make money. Honest and Good Investment Banking is always a win-win situation for both parties. What is now happening is totally opposite of what investment banking is supposed to be and if there is no accountability then there will be ever-increasing misery and suffering for the innocent people.
Have you not seen the Bikini Graph. It’s NOT jobless.
Things would be getting better if Republicans weren’t blocking 190 Bills in the Senate that have already passed the House. They would be making a difference right now if they weren’t being blocked.
When you say things like the Democrats are no better you are doing exactly what the Right counts on you to do.
You falsely suggest that Republican Obstruction equals Democrats not being able to govern.
Well they are governing in spite of it but it’s slower than it should be because of the Republicans.
If we are able to hold on to the Senate the rules WILL be changed on the first day of the next session and they won’t be able to block anything anymore.
Republicans actions in the wake of America electing it’s first Black President is unprecedented and racist.
We will destroy them once and for all this coming November.
I thought you should understand what’s really happening right now.
Lets not put the accountability part on Republicans because it is executive branch which handles it usually even though congress & senate can act sometimes.
Regarding Job market I am not as optimistic as you are right now.
We do not need bigger bubble which is job-less recovery as a solution to smaller burst. Bigger Bubble means bigger recession in future. We want slow and steady growth with jobs. For that we need Glass-Steagall Act re-instated and too to big to fail companies split functionally benefiting share-holders and reducing risk in the system. No action on that count too in-spite of repeated requests.
I want some Green Party members put some competition in Congress and Senate holding up bills till they are forced to become fair to the American people and also ensure accountability which is totally absent right now.
Apparently this is still a center right country. Ergo, “progressive” government incompetently presented and corruptly administered is bound to backfire. Newsflash, the polls are going to get worse and worse. Americans aren’t all that progressive collectively and no amount of media spin and union ptopaganda will change that. What must burn you all is that Rush is winning the culture war.
I am an Independent and I can assure you, it’s because they are “too” progressive. Why do so many low income feel they are due something they did not earn, where is their pride?
‘Where do we get the FREE Obama care, and how do I sign up for that?”
“We tell them it’s not free, that there are going to be things in place that help people who are low-income, but that ultimately most of that is not going to be taking place until 2014,” McLean said.
Adults with pre-existing conditions are frustrated to learn that insurers won’t have to cover them until 2014 (though those under 18 will be protected in late September); then they become both hopeful and confused upon learning that a federal high-risk pool for them will be established in the next few months.
Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/04/06/1566151/health-care-overhaul-spawns-mass.html#ixzz0kh8awXBm
Immediate success would mean an endorsement by America’s oligopoly of wealthy gatekeepers. Is it really better to vote for sell-outs?
Who do you think “you” is in this sentence? I ALREADY HAVE lost the White House, Senate, and Congress.
Defeatist Attitudes abound on the Left but let’s back up for a second. Somebody tried to defend the Bail Out, the Banks are only paying back as to curry favor with financial regulation reform. The reality is they should still come down on them like a ton of bricks. Some of this is the Fed’s fault as well and some of those people are still in place and still in power. This is where the sunlight that is the internet will keep pressure in place for the Fed to open its books.
Seems to me many people are accepting the government is broken and there’s nothing you can do about it. I think memories are short, the wave that swept Obama into office, can empower the Green Power which its never had the “numbers” to make a difference.
Also do you remember Kucinich was pushed off Network TV because he would have kept dragging the debate Left? However America likes front runners because America as a nation is a bunch of front runners and bandwagon riders, that when the going gets tough they jump off just as fast as they got on.
I would argue this country is actually Center Left its just that the media would loose its control of shifting the debate in any direction is sees fit in order to curry the most money from sponsors.
There was no fear in pushing Health Care to the far left. The worst that would happen it would have made Health Insurance obsolete and could have put jobs into danger in a climate that already has fear of job lost. What hasn’t been talked about enough even with the present law, is the shortage of primary care doctors and no mechanism to increase the number of primary care doctors in the short term including Immigration Reform elements so we could maybe import a few doctors to help with the short fall?
The Right has a serious issues, ranging from fund raising to constant dramas that keep more moderates in the party from rejoining even if they feel Obama has either been too aggressive or not aggressive enough (depends who you ask I suppose). American’s “Solution” to being unhappy with both parties is to register as a Independent, which also code for Individualism, in other words, these people feel their ONE vote is more important than solidarity.
This is because there is no party for these people. Maybe these are the true “Centrist” in the country.
I still say Liberals and those who support Liberals because they are working poor, poor and minorities don’t see supporting the Right as helpful. This is because the Right is dominated by Neo-Conservatism and is being courted by the Ultra-Conservative elements in our culture that lead to pronouncements by Bob McDonald and the Tea Party leaders constantly shying away from making strong stances against racism.
They fully understand the social impact of being called “Racist” in America which is why they are willing to come on the TV set and say “We’re not racist” and we can’t control certain elements of our party, nor should we try. Then the Republican Party support network wants to defend the Tea Party but is cautious about it because it could backfire. Honestly I think its too late its backfired and it will only get worst over the summer as try and ramp up the rhetoric. I and I believe all of us on FDL hopes nobody gets hurt or even killed, that would be poor way to claim victory.
There is room for a 3rd party in the America, just believe you can do it. Starting small is how the Republicans did it, we can do the same. I think it needs to be another party because we can’t have other elements of the Democratic Party trying to influence more Progressive members to tow the party line or receive no support.