Just as in so many other issues, the American public is way ahead of congress! …and they are supposed to be our political “leaders!”

Bah!!!

support for Medical is really shocking. This would imply it is a majority position in basically almost ever state in the country.

The only problem I see with legalizing marijuana, is the same as legalized alcohol and cigarettes. Governments will tax the shit out of it so nobody will be able to afford it that can actually benefit from it, like for medical reasons. Those who think that legalizing it will make it as cheap as now are sadly mistaken. Uncle Sam is seriously looking at this for the tax revenues and no other reason.

Amazing. I live in California. We vote for medical marijuana but not for gay marriage. Like was it Rhoade Island, or up there some where? We have the Governator and we have Hollywood.
I can’t even fathom walking into a liquor store and buying pot. No more midnight runs, I guess.
I hope it passes. We need the taxes and also get rid of the Mexican Mafia in this state.
Hip hip hooray.

Those who think that legalizing it will make it as cheap as now are sadly mistaken.
I don’t presume that that is the driving force behind the initiative.
What do you base your statement on? Please.

Marijuana has a pretty heavy black market added on cost. If you look at when they made alcohol legal it became cheaper.

Of course if they tax it to highly just like with beer you can do what I do and brew your own beer.

Hee hee hee. I’ve let the kiddies know to look for seeds.

The ability to tax something heavily is always held in check by the fact that to high a tax could just led people to find ways to avoid paying. With something that is easy to produce avoid a way to high of a tax becomes a serious issue.

Governments at the state level are all broke and need revenue. Some have even admitted that is why they are looking at legalizing marijuana, and others who support the idea have used it as justification of legalizing it. What do you think a bottle of whisky would be worth without taxes? Pack of smokes? It’s the only reason a government will legalize it.

Well, as we all learned in the past six months or so, when an opinion poll comes out the Congress and the president HAVE to follow it otherwise they are not following the will of the people and that means tyranny and the end of America and totally justified violence and total revolution.

Right?

I disagree Jon. Taxes on cigarettes and alcohol in some parts of Canada are huge. In Ontario, most places are over $10/pack for cigarettes because of the taxes. Government just beef up law enforcement to ensure smuggling is minimal. A case of Canadian beer is cheaper here in the US than it is in alot of places in Canada.

Okay.

very true. I don’t even know why we have a government any more when we can just have a pollocracy with latest opinion poll being made law.

Tobacco is taxed pretty heavily but alcohol is not that extreme.

Depends where you live. Canadian alcohol is taxed very heavy in Canada. People still buy it.

Re-legalizing and regulating won’t completely destroy the black market. It will cut down on a lot of the harms done by keeping it illegal.

Polling in CA has been up and down – a few months back it was 47% legalize, 47% keep it criminal. A lot depends on how the poll is worded, I hope the initiative is worded in a way that maximizes support for re-legalizing.

I know how I’ll be voting.

Picture of young Arnold Schwarzenegger smoking marjuana. Maybe Arnold will reverse his position (again) on pot. Anything for a vote, right Arnold?

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/images/blpic-arnoldjoint.htm

A lot will depend on who goes to the polls in November. Just under half the people who could vote likely will vote. If some side an an even issue can really turn out their base they can win, but find and getting people to vote is surprisingly hard.

25 4″ plants.

There was a knock on my brother’s door at 11 o’clock at, night 2 weeks ago. Two state troopers, with their cars cutting off the road at both ends, knocked on his door complaining about a faulty car horn, that was only faulty one time, that night. They grabbed him, claimed they smelled the STUFF, pulled him out of his house, then asked permission tho search the house. Five more storm troopers, along with the first two, searched the house for four hours, then read him his rights.

My brother is on medical disability, has stents and a pacemaker and NEEDS his nitro patches. He can’t stomach pain killers, pot works fine for him.

They threw him in jail with felons, for three days until I could post $ 5,000 cash bail, because of 25 4″ plants, a felony. Then they withheld his medication ( nitro patches) until he had a angina attack, they then took him to the hospital and schackled him to the bed with an armed guard posted at the door. He only grew what he used, never sold to anyone.

Tony, the supreme clown, doesn’t have a problem with his treatment. They intend to either take his house , for 25 4″ plants, or lock him up for ten years. Fuck America, I hope it dies a slow painful death.

You can make your own liquor too, but that is illegal. If everyone had a still, they could make (cheaply) their own combustion engine, lamp and cooking fuel all week long and make their own booze with the same still on weekends.

When in Canada, I drink Canadian Rye Whisky because it is cheap(er) and good.

The tenth amendment prohibits the feds from controlling that which isn’t enumerated in the constitution, period, unless the government officials believe the constitution is just a God Damned piece of paper.

What a horrifying story. I’m so sorry for you and your brother’s troubles. What state are you in? I guess it doesn’t matter all that much.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, OR PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

From my church,

Cultivation and enjoyment of Cannabis sacrament is a fundamental human right provided by God and protected by the first Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. It is our opinion that Cannabis is the original sacrament of Hebrew, Muslim, Christian, Hindu, Shinto, Buddhist, Rasta and more, and fulfills the prophesies to ‘raise up for them a plant of renown…’

http://www.thc-ministry.org/

I noticed that Boxer is coming out against the California proposition.

“Senator Boxer does not support this initiative because she shares the concerns of police chiefs, sheriffs and other law enforcement officials that this measure could lead to an increase in crime, vehicle accidents and higher costs for local law enforcement agencies,”

That reasoning is thin, Senator.

I’d like to see some of the funders of Prop 215 fund a GoTV effort.

MPP has already been asking for grassroots $$ for this and I am counting on doing GoTV with them or another organization in November.

I also would like to see good advertising to counter the inevitable ads from the California Narcotics Officers association, etc.

Oregon seems likely to make the ballot as well. I don’t see funders coming together for Oregon though due to veal pen type issues. People behind it have been critical about the wording of Oregon’s medical cannabis laws (which came out of focus groups, not grass roots).

MPP is likely to qualify an initiative in Nevada in 2012. MPP did some good work with the Nevada legislature in past decade – possession in Nevada is much less criminal compared to even the 90s.

The numbers in polls like this tell me one important fact, that the country is not as conservative as Republicans or teabaggers imagine. The numbers seem to line up pretty well with who identifies as a GOPer or not.

Rather not say, till he’s sentenced.

Carl Olsen has an ongoing lawsuit (pdf) on this – following on the ruling of the 9th District in Guam in 2002, and the Ayahuasca case decided by the SCOTUS also in 2002.

I’ve donated to Carl’s case.

My brother is charged with manufacturing marijuana.

I defy the judge to take a chemistry kit and do some manufacturing.
God manufactures marijuana and if he comes back he’ll be arrested and executed as the major drug king pin behind all of this.

canadianbeaver,

With all due respect, you’re just plain mistaken on the pricing. The price pot, or any other prohibited substance, costs, overwhelmingly reflects the illegality and not the taxes.

The cost of liquor dropped precipitously after Prohibition even with quite punitive taxes on it, and the cost of pot will do the same.

What you’re paying for under a prohibition regime is largely compensation for the risks (violence, theft, prison, etc.) assumed by each seller up the chain from you all the way through the producer. Without prohibition, no link in that chain need include costs for that risk, and the price drops accordingly.

Data on medical cannabis pricing seems to contradict this.

In California anyway, medical cannabis is legally sold by dispensaries. Prices range from $15-$80 per 3.5 grams (eighth ounce). This is very close to black market pricing.

The initiative envisions a tax of $50/ounce.

Well, the illegal angle is still there on the Federal level, which is probably a contributing factor.

this is all crazy as it is part of the ‘war on drugs’ which is really a ‘war’ based on racism.

In any event, here’s some actual data; what gets to me is that MADD is against the initiative(s),especially since the evidence shows it doesn’t come close to the impairment that alcohol causes.

Here’s (PDF)the text of the initiative and note that it provides for a person to grown their own; THAT WILL put price pressure upon a market.

BUT also note that it will be up to cities whether they want to tax and regulate pot; if they don’t then sale and cultivation will still be illegal in such cities but possession will not.

Now excuse me while I go burn another one down.

This would imply it is a majority position in basically almost ever state in the country.

So is single-payer, BFD.

David, do a search on the taxes on gasoline, alcohol and cigarettes. Without these taxes the price would be much much lower.

Tax revenue from alcoholic drinks in Canada
The Federal government collected $1.055 billion from GST and
$1.221 billion in excise duties on all alcoholic products in 2004.
Provincial governments have a great variety of different sales
taxes and levies on alcohol, with widely varying rates between
jurisdictions. Provincial sales taxes range from zero to 35% of
retail sales price, and collectively generated at least $1.104 billion
in 2004. Liquor licensing fees generated a total of $732 million
across all provincial and territorial jurisdictions. The single largest
source of government revenue, however, comes from the ‘markup’
or profit margin from government monopoly liquor stores, a
total of $3.567 billion in 2004. Thus total revenue from the sale of
alcohol in Canada in 2004 amounted to $7.678 billion.

http://carbc.ca/portals/0/resources/AlcPricingFeb06.pdf

That’s just the tax on alcohol. Cigarettes and gas have similar revenues included. My point was, the only reason they’d legalize marijuana was for the tax revenues. In that, I am not wrong. They see $$$$$.

People are thinking about this issue completely the wrong way. The main issue is the basic one of sovereignty of the self; the ability to do whatever you want with your own body without imposing costs on others. It’s the very same idea underpinning the legalization of suicide.

Now the second part of the statement is very important: “without imposing costs on others.”

So what we should do is make smoking anything illegal and legalize everything else – whether snorted, injected, swallowed or absorbed – of all drugs. The only places you should be allowed to smoke are designated private smoking facilities with air filtration systems. I cannot refuse or consent to inhaling smoke (and where I live, it’s a constant assault on your respiratory system – if the people using it ate, snorted, or injected it, there would be no problem). Otherwise, just legalize and regulate; you should have to go through a lengthy process to determine whether you’re fit to use drugs (including alcohol) and you’d have to sign consent forms, and agree that any costs incurred due to potential addiction are your own and will not be borne by the state (except addiction programs themselves, of course). If you agree, you’re sold drugs by state-chartered companies that are tightly regulated, including pricing, to eliminate the black market.

We should be talking about methods and harm reduction, not just “substances”. Don’t “legalize pot”; protect sovereignty of the self.

You sure? I know quite a lot of cannabis-users who are surprisingly conservative. Admittedly, I live in kind of a weird place compared to most of America.

This should be a two-fer. 1) Legalize and collect taxes 2) Stop wasting money on law enforcement and prosecution and incarceration. Redirect those funds elsewhere.

Setting up a still or brewing your own beer is still kind of a hassle. Sure it can and is done but I don’t think most people want to be bothered with it. Growing 5 or 6 plants in a window or under lights is pretty easy and can be fun (even instructional.) I think gov’ts would have a hard time jacking up the taxes too high if people truly are free to grow their own. Would you pay $300/oz for something you could grow in the livingroom?

Passing Medical MJ is so obvious – get the sick, injured, and dying off the battlefield. What kind of sick fuck would hassle them? Who gave anyone else the right to criticize what does or does not comfort these individuals?
I have donated $50 to FDL’s Action alert, AND i am going to GOTV in my state.
POV of a Jewish Mother – if my kid smokes, *I* will grow our weed so it is healthy and organic. – and does not contribute to cartel’s murderous behaviour.
Grow your own – impoverish the cartels.